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#11
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Feb 17, 12:57 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Feb 17, 11:07 am, wrote: ... Even better - how did we map out the Soviet's Tall King air defence radar network without direct photo coverage, and the Sovs going silent whenever the ELINT airplanes were flying around? -- Pete Stickney OTH? Nice writeup. Thanks. Jim Wilkins http://www.tbp.org/pages/Publication.../F99Poteat.pdf The Oxcart mission planners were especially concerned about just how widespread the Soviet's early-warning radar was and where it was located. It seemed impossible, however, to determine the number, exact location, or any other technical information on those installations. I recalled a story from my Cape Canaveral days in the early 1950s, when the signal from a ground-based radar located nearly a thousand miles beyond our horizon was picked up at the Cape -- the signal was reflected off a Thor missile during a test flight. The suggestion was then made that this same phenomenon (later called bi-static intercept) could be used to intercept Soviet high-powered radar located well over the horizon by pointing the ELINT antennas at the Soviet ballistic missiles during their flight testing, by using the missile's radio beacon for pointing, or simply programming the ELINT antennas to follow the missile's predicted trajectory. The idea to gain greater knowledge of Soviet air defense capabilities through bi-static interception was approved by CIA management, and project Melody was born. There were no computers in those days, so our feasibility studies and engineering calculations involved solving spherical trigonometry equations using slide rules, tables of logarithms, and hand-cranked calculators. Melody was installed at a CIA monitoring site on the shores of the Caspian Sea in northern Iran. Over the ensuing years, Melody produced bi-static intercepts of virtually all the ground-based Soviet missile tracking radar, including all their anti-ballistic missile tracking sites located at a test range nearly a thousand miles away. The fixed location of Melody and limited trajectories of the Soviet missiles being tracked, however, still did not provide the locations of all the air defense radar installations throughout the Soviet Union that were needed by the Oxcart mission planners. A new Soviet early-warning radar, called the Tall King, began to appear about this time, which if deployed widely, appeared to improve significantly the Soviets' air defenses. The new, very large, and obviously powerful Tall King radar quickly became the Oxcart's nemesis Melody's success with the high-powered, missile related radar led to the idea of using the moon as a distant bi-static reflector to intercept and locate the Tall King radar systems deployed in the Soviet Union. At the same time, the Lincoln Laboratory, America's premier radar-development house, had been engaged in a "radar astronomy race" with its Soviet counterpart to see which side would be first to detect and characterize the moon's surface using radar. Lincoln won handily. I visited Dr. John Evans at the labs and discussed the moon radar results and the bi-static moon idea. Drawing on the labs' understanding of the moon as a reflector of radar signals, sensitive ELINT receivers, tuned to the Tall King frequency, were attached to the giant 60-foot RCA radar antenna just off the New Jersey Turnpike near Moorestown and pointed at the moon. (The labs' giant radar antenna was preoccupied with further radar astronomy experiments.) The ELINT receivers were also optimized for the effects of the moon as a reflector, that is, using the lab's "matched filter" techniques. Over time, as the Earth and moon revolved and rotated, all the Soviet radar sites came into view one at a time, and their precise geographic locations were plotted. The extremely large number of installations that were found, and the rather complete coverage of the Soviet Union, were not good news for the Oxcart program office -- or for the U.S. Air Force Strategic Air Command, which had to plot wartime bomber penetration routes. |
#12
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
Jack Linthicum ha scritto:
EW test question: How did Halsey know to send Air Force P-38s to knock Admiral Yamamoto out of the sky in the South Pacific during WWII? Cryptography and signals intelligence - which aren't usually considered forms of EW at all AFAIK. I was to write the same.... I have only to add that in the EW & Crypto environment is easy to steal merits... Even very high brasses don't have necessarly all the various "need to know" clearances to effectively adjudge merits and esp. the following promotions & increase in resources.... Best regards from Italy, Dott. Piergiorgio. It is the "decision-making" that is the key to the primacy of the brass, IIRC the decision was made to hit Yamamoto despite the belief that the act would reveal the Allies ability to read Naval codes. JN-25D the latest. meh... I can understand Vince's misunderstanding, but you, Jack, really surprise me... I was saying not about Yamamoto, but in larger and broader terms, and not only the spook/black gizmo people of the US of A... I wonder how you haven't get the point... Best regards from Italy, Dott. Piergiorgio. |
#13
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:13:12 +0000 (UTC), W. D. Allen
wrote: "...the Navy may be the only service with enough expertise and imagination to keep it (electronic warfare) alive. That was definitely the case during the Vietnam war! WDA Former NAVAIR program manager for EW end _________________________ Kept it alive, arguably so. But if we want to address bringing it into robust vigor during the Vietnam years, I think there were some joint force partners in the effort. (EB-66, EC-121, EB-47, EC-47, F-100F, F-105F & G, F-4C, ALQ-67, 72, 87, 94, 101, OV-1 Mohawk, QU-22B, Igloo White, Teaball, AGM-45, AGM-78, ....etc. etc.) Some systems orginated from USN programs, some from Army, some from AF. Lots of stuff went on. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" www.thunderchief.org www.thundertales.blogspot.com |
#14
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Apr 6, 1:29 pm, Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:13:12 +0000 (UTC), W. D. Allen wrote: "...the Navy may be the only service with enough expertise and imagination to keep it (electronic warfare) alive. That was definitely the case during the Vietnam war! WDA Former NAVAIR program manager for EW end _________________________ Kept it alive, arguably so. But if we want to address bringing it into robust vigor during the Vietnam years, I think there were some joint force partners in the effort. (EB-66, EC-121, EB-47, EC-47, F-100F, F-105F & G, F-4C, ALQ-67, 72, 87, 94, 101, OV-1 Mohawk, QU-22B, Igloo White, Teaball, AGM-45, AGM-78, ....etc. etc.) Some systems orginated from USN programs, some from Army, some from AF. Lots of stuff went on. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled"www.thunderchief.orgwww.thundertales.blogsp ot.com Add Black Crow |
#15
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
W. D. Allen wrote in
: "...the Navy may be the only service with enough expertise and imagination to keep it (electronic warfare) alive. Cheer up. Maybe every enemy we face in future will be (in the charming phrase of a former colleague of mine from Fort Halstead) "armed with the electronic equivalent of a sharpened mango". :-( All the best, John. |
#16
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Apr 6, 2:17 pm, John D Salt jdsalt_AT_gotadsl.co.uk wrote:
W. D. Allen wrote : "...the Navy may be the only service with enough expertise and imagination to keep it (electronic warfare) alive. Cheer up. Maybe every enemy we face in future will be (in the charming phrase of a former colleague of mine from Fort Halstead) "armed with the electronic equivalent of a sharpened mango". :-( All the best, John. The digital ones are damned hard to record and break out |
#17
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Feb 16, 7:37 am, Mike wrote:
Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare. Lexington Institute.http://lexingtoninstitute.org/1223.shtml When you consider how much money Americans spend on defense -- about $4 trillion so far in this decade alone -- it's amazing what a poor job we do of maintaining our military arsenal. In the years since the cold war ended, the Navy's fleet has shrunk by half to fewer than 300 ships, the Air Force's planes have "matured" to twice the age of the commercial airline fleet, and the Army has largely abandoned the production of heavy armored vehicles. There's a simple reason for all these signs of military decay: the threat went away. No peer adversary has taken the place of the Red Army or the Imperial Navy. I note that the USN Grumman EA-6B is being used to create a jammed space around ground US patrols in Iraq. The jamming prevents the detonation of improvised explosive devices. Presumably highly directional electronically shaped antenna create temporal grace around the patrol. The USAF apparently can't do this mission due to the degradation of this type of aircraft. The money is going into the occupation of Iraq. Eventually advanced tech will be needed, maybe to protect Taiwan for a little longer from a rapidly empowering China. |
#18
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
On Apr 8, 6:36 am, Eunometic wrote:
On Feb 16, 7:37 am, Mike wrote: Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare. Lexington Institute.http://lexingtoninstitute.org/1223.shtml When you consider how much money Americans spend on defense -- about $4 trillion so far in this decade alone -- it's amazing what a poor job we do of maintaining our military arsenal. In the years since the cold war ended, the Navy's fleet has shrunk by half to fewer than 300 ships, the Air Force's planes have "matured" to twice the age of the commercial airline fleet, and the Army has largely abandoned the production of heavy armored vehicles. There's a simple reason for all these signs of military decay: the threat went away. No peer adversary has taken the place of the Red Army or the Imperial Navy. I note that the USN Grumman EA-6B is being used to create a jammed space around ground US patrols in Iraq. The jamming prevents the detonation of improvised explosive devices. Presumably highly directional electronically shaped antenna create temporal grace around the patrol. The USAF apparently can't do this mission due to the degradation of this type of aircraft. The money is going into the occupation of Iraq. Eventually advanced tech will be needed, maybe to protect Taiwan for a little longer from a rapidly empowering China. Cite, on the jamming being successful? |
#19
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
"Eunometic" wrote in message ... I note that the USN Grumman EA-6B is being used to create a jammed space around ground US patrols in Iraq. The jamming prevents the detonation of improvised explosive devices. Presumably highly directional electronically shaped antenna create temporal grace around the patrol. The British did something similar in Northern Ireland. The IRA switched to command detonated devices. After the British started looking for the wires after the bang they moved on to more sophisticated radio equipment such as that found on the dead IRA people shot in Gibraltar which required a series of thumb wheels to be set to the correct number to transmit the firing signal. The stuff is 'Radio Amateur' technology and can be picked up in any major city. It is reasonable to assume that the Iraqi bad guys have access to all this sort of thing at that technical escalation will happen in exactly the same way... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. .. |
#20
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Fading Signal: The Neglect of Electronic Warfare.
"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message . .. "William Black" wrote: It is reasonable to assume that the Iraqi bad guys have access to all this sort of thing at that technical escalation will happen in exactly the same way... Or they'll stick to line-of-sight stuff like IR or lasers, or they'll switch to using mobile phones and planting the bombs in areas where people will complain abou too frequent mobile phone outages. Or they'll shift to using something that detects a jam of the radio- command-link and then activates a motion sensor... after all, jamming means "the patrol is coming, get ready". The more sophisticated jammers only switch on when a signal is detected, hopefully quickly enough to stop a detonation. Jeff |
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