Truck vs Car as a tow vehicle

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 10:58:34 AM UTC-7, AS wrote:
Nowadays, we prefer a 24' motorhome for the long trips.

Has been mentioned numerous times before here but since the secret weapon of any teacher/instructor is repetition, I say it again:
Beware of vehicles with a long overhang, i.e. distance between the rear axle and the tow hitch. Any bumps in the road the towing vehicle goes over will be amplified as far as up and down motion goes. Class-C Motorhomes can have a ridiculous overhang.
Also, if the trailer has no brakes and the rig gets out of line during hard braking, a long overhang can wreak havoc and end in a jack-knife much faster than towing with a vehicle having a short overhang.

Uli
'AS'

I have never heard of a Class C motorhome jackknifing while pulling a glider (I have heard of passenger car towing accidents, however). Perhaps you can cite the accidents you are referring to.

Tom

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 1:23:41 PM UTC-5, Chris Behm wrote:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel).
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.

Thanks.

Regards,
"Target"

Here's a quick little video illustrating the effect of weight distribution on fishtailing, using a treadmill and models
https://youtu.be/4jk9H5AB4lM

This short video is a little more detailed
https://youtu.be/PFzrWHTG5e8

Here's a slightly technical article on some of the important technical factors important in towing trailers with pickups.
https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/ge...-with-pickups/

Here's a comprehensive technical review of towing physics (money required, or a friendly research librarian)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...23117708968545
Includes interesting references.

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 2:23:41 PM UTC-4, Chris Behm wrote:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel).
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.

Thanks.

Regards,
"Target"

I'll probably go against the grain of many responders, but here goes.
I have been a very active pilot, flying 4-6 contests a year and moving trailers to my shop on a regular basis.
For more than 40 years I have used my regular daily driver car. All have been intermediate sized vehicles, selected with towing capability in mind. Most are V8, good to excellent suspension sedans.
Best of all time- Jaguar XJ-6 quite a while ago. Comfortable, excellent towing, good to drive all day.
Current primary- older Lincoln LS. Good to excellent towing up to and including Cobra with ASK-21. 23 mpg on the highway with my Cobra/ASG-29.
I have never seen the need for a true truck.
We now have a Lincoln MKX cross over. Very good towing, lots of space, all wheel drive, higher ground clearance. Not as much fun to drive as the LS.
My wife has a Jaguar XF cross over. Tows very well. Same attributes as the MKX.
The two recent vehicles acquired mostly because they are easier to get in and out of for less flexible people.
Most current cross over vehicles can make good to vehicles, given good suspensions and short rear overhangs. They also tend to have robust drivetrains..
I don't need no pick 'em up truck.
FWIW
UH

Nothing wrong with a decent sized sedan or crossover vehicle for glider towing. As stated previously, weight and wheelbase are your friends. Subaru Outback is about as small as I would go.

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 9:16:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Nothing wrong with a decent sized sedan or crossover vehicle for glider towing. As stated previously, weight and wheelbase are your friends. Subaru Outback is about as small as I would go.

I've towed since 1995 with a Nissan Maxima (great), Nissan Frontier V6/2WD (great, mileage sucked), 13 yrs with a VW Jetta diesel (very good), and 1 and a bit with a 2014 VW Golf Wagon (Jetta Sportswagen in the US - great); both the VW's were manual trans (5 and 6 speed respectively). I've towed a tube trailer with an Austria in it (up to 2007), and an Avionic AVG15 with an SZD 55 in it since (just under 2,000 lbs - tow limit of the 2014 Golf Wagon). The clamshell trailer is easier on fuel (for the diesels, goes from 45 USmpg to 32 when towing at Interstate speeds). Nothing wrong with a small sedan/wagon for towing. Both the trailers had hydraulic brakes which worked very well. Lived in Colorado, and tow in NY (Lake Placid) and to the Ridge in PA; hills were no problem.

I've also used a newer Honda CRV for the club land-out king, and it was usable (disliked the adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping beeps).

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 5:57:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 2:23:41 PM UTC-4, Chris Behm wrote:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel).
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.

Thanks.

Regards,
"Target"
I'll probably go against the grain of many responders, but here goes.
I have been a very active pilot, flying 4-6 contests a year and moving trailers to my shop on a regular basis.
For more than 40 years I have used my regular daily driver car. All have been intermediate sized vehicles, selected with towing capability in mind. Most are V8, good to excellent suspension sedans.
Best of all time- Jaguar XJ-6 quite a while ago. Comfortable, excellent towing, good to drive all day.
Current primary- older Lincoln LS. Good to excellent towing up to and including Cobra with ASK-21. 23 mpg on the highway with my Cobra/ASG-29.
I have never seen the need for a true truck.
We now have a Lincoln MKX cross over. Very good towing, lots of space, all wheel drive, higher ground clearance. Not as much fun to drive as the LS.
My wife has a Jaguar XF cross over. Tows very well. Same attributes as the MKX.
The two recent vehicles acquired mostly because they are easier to get in and out of for less flexible people.
Most current cross over vehicles can make good to vehicles, given good suspensions and short rear overhangs. They also tend to have robust drivetrains.
I don't need no pick 'em up truck.
FWIW
UH
"I have never seen the need for a true truck" For the life of me, I can't believe someone would actually post those words! While, technically true, it just feels like
the first time my Father didn't let me win. I grew up in Idaho, and have had a 4 X Pick Up truck my entire life. Just had to rebuild the differential because I have never used the 4x,
but damnit, I have it!

Funny!

When I showed up at TSA (Texas Soaring Association) with a 1988 Ford
F-150 extended cab, long bed, 4WD truck, I was asked if that wasn't
overkill. But when I moved to Colorado 2 years later, it was just right!

Dan
5J

On 10/31/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
"I have never seen the need for a true truck" For the life of me, I can't believe someone would actually post those words! While, technically true, it just feels like
the first time my Father didn't let me win. I grew up in Idaho, and have had a 4 X Pick Up truck my entire life. Just had to rebuild the differential because I have never used the 4x,
but damnit, I have it!

wrote on 10/30/2020 5:57 AM:
On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 2:23:41 PM UTC-4, Chris Behm wrote:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel).
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.

Thanks.

Regards,
"Target"

I'll probably go against the grain of many responders, but here goes.
I have been a very active pilot, flying 4-6 contests a year and moving trailers to my shop on a regular basis.
For more than 40 years I have used my regular daily driver car. All have been intermediate sized vehicles, selected with towing capability in mind. Most are V8, good to excellent suspension sedans.
Best of all time- Jaguar XJ-6 quite a while ago. Comfortable, excellent towing, good to drive all day.
Current primary- older Lincoln LS. Good to excellent towing up to and including Cobra with ASK-21. 23 mpg on the highway with my Cobra/ASG-29.
I have never seen the need for a true truck.
We now have a Lincoln MKX cross over. Very good towing, lots of space, all wheel drive, higher ground clearance. Not as much fun to drive as the LS.
My wife has a Jaguar XF cross over. Tows very well. Same attributes as the MKX.
The two recent vehicles acquired mostly because they are easier to get in and out of for less flexible people.
Most current cross over vehicles can make good to vehicles, given good suspensions and short rear overhangs. They also tend to have robust drivetrains..
I don't need no pick 'em up truck.
FWIW

And now that you have a motorglider, the likelihood of needing a true truck is even smaller.
That applies more widely, too, as the percentage motorgliders is increasing. I've also noticed
glider pilots are not as bold as they were 40 years (even the ones under 50), their gliders
have better performance, and the crews are staying home, which leads to more "landouts" at
airports than fields.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Chris Behm wrote on 10/25/2020 11:23 AM:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel)..
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.


Here's another idea: look at the tow vehicles on the airfield where you will be flying. That
might give you an idea of what is useful in your area. If you do see a 4WD pickup tow vehicle,
chat up the owner, find out why they have it, then get their phone number, just in case you do
land out in a difficult access field. Buy them a beer once in a while, so they think you are
worth retrieving ;^)

Spend more on the glider, less on the tow vehicle - but get one that tows safely on the highway.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 9:57:38 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Chris Behm wrote on 10/25/2020 11:23 AM:
I am wondering how often a truck for towing a glider trailer might be an advantage? I have yet to buy my first glider, but of course and thinking that the next vehicle I purchase should be a good one to tow with (Incidentally, thinking of the GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, with the 2.8L inline 4 diesel)..
But I am wondering how often that a truck is a better choice, all things considered.

Here's another idea: look at the tow vehicles on the airfield where you will be flying. That
might give you an idea of what is useful in your area. If you do see a 4WD pickup tow vehicle,
chat up the owner, find out why they have it, then get their phone number, just in case you do
land out in a difficult access field. Buy them a beer once in a while, so they think you are
worth retrieving ;^)

Spend more on the glider, less on the tow vehicle - but get one that tows safely on the highway.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Thanks to all of you for replying. There is lots of great info here.
I should have been more specific regarding the car vs truck question. I am wondering about outlanding retrieves. Part of me thinks that a truck would be much better, the other parts thinks that most fields that are safely landable by a glider would be able to be traversed by most cars, especially AWD cars.
Being a bit of a frugal guy, I would rather not waste fuel 99% of the time. I suppose I could purchase a dedicated vehicle for towing to a glider event and the possible outlanding recoveries. But it sure would be great to have something double duty that could do both, and be economical when not towing a glider.

What are are the ranges of trailer weights for 15M gliders? I would assume a Libelle in an Eberle trailer would be at the low end of the range. What does that weigh loaded?
How about an 18M span ship, like a Ventus 2 in a Cobra or Comet?

Thanks again, guys.
Try to be nice to each other.....

Very Respectfully,
Target