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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition



 
 
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  #81  
Old December 3rd 12, 08:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
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Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

And you guys (RC) are much closer to getting roses and tremendous praise then you think...

:-)

I want nothing more then to be the first sender of flowers.
  #82  
Old December 4th 12, 12:56 AM
Ventus_a Ventus_a is offline
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Posts: 202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean F (F2) View Post
On a bus trip today. Will reply in more detail tomorrow.

Dont forget that 33 people have signed this FAI Club Class (US) petition. And they are not 33 slackers. Many of them are very accomplished pilots WHO OWN AND FLY Club Range gliders and have been asking for this class for years.

Sean

Petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...fb_connected=1
Sean, 2 of the petition signees are from Australia. You have counted them in the 33 because they fly contests in the US? or are you just trying to bolster the numbers?

Cheers
Colin
  #83  
Old December 4th 12, 03:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

I am very interested how a contest would be validated by the SSA competition committee if WINSCORE was not used.


If the SSA rules comittee approves a club class using FAI rules in the US, then Winscore will be upgraded to score that class by FAI rules.

Guy Byars

  #84  
Old December 4th 12, 03:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:22:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
I am very interested how a contest would be validated by the SSA competition committee if WINSCORE was not used.






If the SSA rules comittee approves a club class using FAI rules in the US, then Winscore will be upgraded to score that class by FAI rules.



Guy Byars


SeeYou is popular scoring program. Will Winsocore need to be upgraded if SeeYou us uesd?

Sean Franke (HA)
  #85  
Old December 4th 12, 04:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 9:31:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:22:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:

I am very interested how a contest would be validated by the SSA competition committee if WINSCORE was not used.












If the SSA rules comittee approves a club class using FAI rules in the US, then Winscore will be upgraded to score that class by FAI rules.








Guy Byars




SeeYou is popular scoring program. Will Winsocore need to be upgraded if SeeYou us uesd?

Sean Franke (HA)


Maybe it is the numerious typos, but your message makes no sense.

Let me repeat, if the SSA Rules comittee approves approves IGC rules for a class in the US, then I will upgrade Winscore to score that class by those rules.

The scorer/organizers at that contest are free to use whichever program they like.

Guy Byars






  #86  
Old December 4th 12, 08:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 47
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:34:21 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 9:31:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:22:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:




I am very interested how a contest would be validated by the SSA competition committee if WINSCORE was not used.
























If the SSA rules comittee approves a club class using FAI rules in the US, then Winscore will be upgraded to score that class by FAI rules.
















Guy Byars








SeeYou is popular scoring program. Will Winsocore need to be upgraded if SeeYou us uesd?




Sean Franke (HA)




Maybe it is the numerious typos, but your message makes no sense.



Let me repeat, if the SSA Rules comittee approves approves IGC rules for a class in the US, then I will upgrade Winscore to score that class by those rules.



The scorer/organizers at that contest are free to use whichever program they like.



Guy Byars


Yes, many typos. Thanks

Sean Franke (HA)
  #87  
Old December 5th 12, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition


We figured we'd be getting bouquets of flowers and boxes of
chocolates. Leaving aside the start, finish, scoring formulas, metric units, tiny turn radii, these rules impose completely different procedures. Quick, what are the IGC weight limits? Rules on modifications? Rules on use of fixed
and disposable ballast? How many of your pilots know how to fly these
rules? Doing this at a nationals without trying it at regionals would
be insane.

So, yes. If you want to completely change the concept of the class --
which IGC rules really is! -- that needs to be worked out at a
regionals, not at a nationals, that is already sanctioned. The
sanctioning process includes a check of things pilots expect like, is
there a scorer and a CD who knows the rules they race is going to fly
under! Sean has a theory that it's a 5 minute job with see you to use
a different set of rules. He needs to talk to John Good and Ken
Sorenson and find out about the months -- months -- it took to get
rules and procedures worked out for Uvalde.

I'm sorry for the irritated tone. But when we give you 95% of what you
wanted, in the form that we had all been working on steadily for 5
years, and then suddenly the demands change radically at the last
moment, ignoring all the previous work, ignoring all the
practicalities of what it takes to run a contest, well, you can
imagine it's a little irritating.
John Cochrane


Again this position is extreme and dramatic. When you stay within reality creating an FAI Club Class is the next logical step.

I think if most had to give a quick response on US rules you would get the same result as FAI. It would have to be looked up. Here is the big difference. FAI rules are almost HALF in length. Keep in mind complexity is being cut NOT added. Rules and procedures are not radically different, just a lot less.

Lets look at the three major differences between proposed RC Club Class and FAI.

1. FAI has a Racing Task(Assigned Speed Task)and Assigned Area Task (AAT). US has the MAT and AAT. Racing Task will be unlikely.
2.FAI has a narrower restricted handicap range than the US. Proposed US Club Class handicap range extends from a Ventus 1 to SGS 2-33.
3. Scoring formula / program is different.

FAI Club Class concepts HAVE BEEN proven in super-regionals. To state otherwise is FALSE. I flew in the 2011 Club Class super regional in Moriarty. The only real difference between this contest and FAI was US scoring. Short of scoring, major FAI components were successfully proven. Participation was grater than some National contests.

Enthusiasm hasn't diminished. US Club Class has done it's due diligence. The RC has proposed a Club Class version which completely ignores all previous work and changes concept of the class.

The RC said prove it in a regional. We did. Now it's time for the RC to follow through, take then next logical step and propose a US Club Class Nationals based on concepts established in the Regionals.

Sean Franke (HA)
  #88  
Old December 5th 12, 12:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
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Posts: 573
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

Sean Franke consistently shows the most objective command of the world soaring rules landscape (99% FAI, 1% US). We all know the US rules. But many, MANY have deep misconceptions about the FAI rules. Many disturbingly so...

Sean
F2
  #89  
Old December 5th 12, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
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Posts: 573
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

35 now. Discount them as needed. But in general, the soaring crowd is not interested in public debate. The fact that 35 have signed (minus whatever number you wish) is very compelling to most... Not the RC however. They are relying on their poll.

Sean
  #90  
Old December 5th 12, 03:38 AM
Ventus_a Ventus_a is offline
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Posts: 202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean F (F2) View Post
35 now. Discount them as needed. But in general, the soaring crowd is not interested in public debate. The fact that 35 have signed (minus whatever number you wish) is very compelling to most... Not the RC however. They are relying on their poll.

Sean
But by not answering the query about the 2 Australians on the petition list you seem to very selective about what you want to debate. I'm just an interested bystander but the question was valid.

You appear to be trying to fudge the numbers so your credibility, objectiveness and integrity will likely be called into question by those you seek to get onside

Colin
 




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