Help Our UAL Friends

I'm not so sure that execs are that rare -- so many of them screw up so
many times and, then go off to other companies and ruin them, too.

Same can be said about quarterbacks. In the end the board must decide
they are worth the money.

The boards of directors appear to have an incestuous relationship with
each other and with other companies, allowing the above phenomenon.

The board are elected by the owners. If the board is not acting in the
best interest of the owners they should be voted off (and actually can
face large civil penalties). Companies are mostly owned by mutual fund
managers and portfolio companies. Those managers are paid SOLEY on the
return the portfolio they put together returns. There is no room for
"friends". I'm not going to keep my money in a fund that isn't
performing.

-Robert

("Robert M. Gary" wrote)
[snip]
Shall we also talk about "unrealistic" management compensation packages?

The owners of the company have to decide how much they are willing to pay
them. What the
owners decided to pay their execs is none of the employees business.
The purpose of the company is to return value to shareholders (owners)
**NOT** to provide employement. If you don't like it, there are still
some communist countries out there for you to choose from.


You and I see a different America. Not so much Red and Blue, but rather the
Gilded Age (with an occasional Homestead Mill thrown in) vs. the stabilizing
force of a strong middle class ...1935-1985.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegi...mh_horror.html

Al Checchi took over 1 Billion (with a B) dollars out of NWA when he left -
clearly his hand picked Board of Directors was on the ball with that one -
returning value to investors and all. Checchi left when NWA was in the mid
$70's. Then it slid to the $50's, $40's, then $20's, (9/11) in the $teens,
then $7, then $2 ....then zip.


Montblack
The Copper Bosses killed you Joe,
they shot you Joe" says I.
Takes more than guns to kill a man
Says Joe "I didn't die"
Says Joe "I didn't die"

Al Checchi took over 1 Billion (with a B) dollars out of NWA when he left -
clearly his hand picked Board of Directors was on the ball with that one -

That sucks, and the owners should fire the board. But that is a private
decision between the board and the owners (actually public in this case
because of the voting), but it has nothing to do with employees.
Employees work for a company so long as they can add value. When a
company goes belly up, the environment in which the employee can add
value goes away and therefore, the employee should go away. This
natural supply/demand and laws of economics ensure the employee is most
productive (in this case, moving to a company where they can be more
productive). If I over pay my top employees that's my decision, it has
nothing to do with guarantying employment for my employees. Owners will
not want to over pay their employees (CEOs or otherwise) but sometimes
unions push them into it.

-Robert

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
A neighbor, who is UAL (ret) asked me to circulate this one.

They make some pretty good points, as the UAL people currently stand to
get reamed pretty badly.


They do? Not half as badly as a lot of much poorer people got reamed on
the Gulf Coast earlier this month.

I'll bet a good survey would show that these guys by and large are in
the upper 10-15% of net worth between real estate, investments, and the
like. Are you going to see retired UAL pilots selling their houses on
golf courses? No doubt. Are you going to see retired UAL pilots in soup
kitchens? Pretty unlikely on a $50k/year pension.

As far as I'm concerned, that's where my responsibility ends. I'm 29
and can make a very good income and would still struggle to raise a
family and put a few bucks in the bank so I have something to fall back
on when I don't collect the pension I never had and Social Security
raises the retirement age to one day short of my life expectancy. Oh,
and now we're going to buy you all prescription drugs, too. Wunderbar!
When do I get my handout?

Let's remember that the majority of those who are losing in the
UAL pension debacle are NOT the senior pilots. They are the
mechanics, the flight attendants (who NEVER joined into the
"employee owned" mantra), the gate people, baggage handlers,
the admin staff (usually not union), and so on.

Blanche wrote:
Let's remember that the majority of those who are losing in the
UAL pension debacle are NOT the senior pilots. They are the
mechanics, the flight attendants (who NEVER joined into the
"employee owned" mantra), the gate people, baggage handlers,
the admin staff (usually not union), and so on.

It's not quite that simple. The PBGC will not guarantee over ~$50k/year
in pension payments, and it's mostly pilots who are getting payments
above that range. There is pain being distributed throughout the
organization, but the mechanics, FAs, etc are losing proportionately a
lot less than the upper-tier pilots.

Also, I read somewhere that around 1/3 of UAL's pension funds were
non-guaranteed funds (meaning UAL opted to not pay to insure them
through PBGC) which is a pretty high percentage. This was not a secret
nor were the under-fundings that had been going on for years. Frankly,
UAL's unions were so uniquely obnoxious that I can't excuse them from
culpability for all this. That place was a roaring party when times
were good but hangovers are a bitch.

-cwk.