Vietnam. Any US planes lost in China ?

Were there ever any United States combat planes lost in China during
the Vietnam war ? Some of our planes must have flown close enough to
China that they may have possibly had to crash there.

Dear Mike,

Here's one. On September 20, 1965, USAF Captain Philip E. Smith, 436 TFS, 479
TFW (attached to 6252 TFW) Da Nang, flying an F-104C 56-0883, strayed off
course from a combat air patrol over the Gulf of Tonkin following an instrument
failure. He was shot down over China by Chinese MiG-19s and captured.

The incident is told in "Journey Into Darkness" by Col. Philip E. Smith & Peggy
Hertz

Hope this is of some help

Regards
Mike Bennett
(Project: Get Out and Walk)

I think VA-196 lost an A-6 in China
Sparky

Dear Sparky,

Two USN A-6A Intruders from VA-196A off USS Constellation
were reported shot down by Chinese MiG-19 aircraft when they inadvertently
crossed into Chinese airspace on 21 August, 1967

A-6A buno 152627
Crew:
Lt(jg) Dain Vanderlin Scott (KIA)
Lt(jg) Forrest George Trembley (KIA)

A-6A buno 152625
Crew:
Lt. Cdr Jimmy Lee Buckley (KIA)
Lt. Robert James Flynn (POW) (Ejected)

However Lt. Flynn who was injured during his ejection contradicts this version
of events and states that he was shot down over North Vietnam and taken to
China.

Suggest you look at the following POW web page

http://www.scopesys.com/cgi/bio2.cgi?bio=F049

Also go to the search page

http://www.scopesys.com/powmia/powsearch.html

and in the Country of Loss box click on China from the drop down list.

When the list of Blue names appears click on each one individually to get to
their biography.


Hope this helps

Regards
Mike Bennett
(Project: Get Out and Walk)

Building on Mike's note:

That was the classic Bad Day At Black Rock for the Intruder community.
Four-plane strike against railroad targets between Hanoi and the Chinese
border. Only one returned.

In addition to the two losses Mike mentions, 196's skipper and B/N (Leo
Profilet / Bill Hardman) got zapped near the target by a SAM that took their
entire right wing off. They enjoyed the courtesies of the Hanoi Hilton
until 1973. After the strike, a large group of TSTMs in the Hanoi area
split up the remaining three aircraft on the return leg. Scott / Trembley
and Buckley / Flynn blundered into Chinese airspace where they were jumped.

Bob Flynn spent 6 1/2 years in the Peoples Republic, all but 13 days in
solitary confinement.

Only Phil Bloomer and Denny Bergman made it back to CONNIE that night.

Bad scene.

For more detail on this fiasco, see the Summer 1997 issue of THE HOOK, pp.
31 - 32.

--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"When was the last time in world history in which 'suicide' and 'martyrdom'
were the code of enlightened action admired by any society?"

- Roy Fassel (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 10/27/03)


"MBenShar" wrote in message
...
Dear Sparky,

Two USN A-6A Intruders from VA-196A off USS Constellation
were reported shot down by Chinese MiG-19 aircraft when they inadvertently
crossed into Chinese airspace on 21 August, 1967

A-6A buno 152627
Crew:
Lt(jg) Dain Vanderlin Scott (KIA)
Lt(jg) Forrest George Trembley (KIA)

A-6A buno 152625
Crew:
Lt. Cdr Jimmy Lee Buckley (KIA)
Lt. Robert James Flynn (POW) (Ejected)

However Lt. Flynn who was injured during his ejection contradicts this
version
of events and states that he was shot down over North Vietnam and taken to
China.

Suggest you look at the following POW web page

http://www.scopesys.com/cgi/bio2.cgi?bio=F049

Also go to the search page

http://www.scopesys.com/powmia/powsearch.html

and in the Country of Loss box click on China from the drop down list.

When the list of Blue names appears click on each one individually to get
to
their biography.


Hope this helps

Regards
Mike Bennett
(Project: Get Out and Walk)

Mike,

Do you by any chance have a copy of the issue of the HOOK that you could
either send me a scan or a xerox of

Unfortunately I have neither a soft copy of the article nor a scanner.

I also went to the Tailhook Association's web site
(http://www.tailhook.org/) and found the issue in question, but the article
is not among the few from that issue posted. Suggest you contact the
Tailhook Association ) and see if you can snivel a copy,
or just the two pp. in question: PRIDE OF THE IRONWORKS - THE GRUMMAN A-6
INTRUDER (Part I), Morgan & Morgan (auth.), THE HOOK, Summer 1997.

The specific incident is covered on pp. 31-32.

Hope this helps.
--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"When was the last time in world history in which 'suicide' and 'martyrdom'
were the code of enlightened action admired by any society?"

- Roy Fassel (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 10/27/03)


"MBenShar" wrote in message
...
Dear Mike,

Do you by any chance have a copy of the issue of the HOOK that you could
either
send me a scan or a xerox of

Regards

Mike Bennett
(Project: Get Out and Walk)

.

I vaguely recollect hearing about an A-3 that left Cubi Point for Yankee
Station and short of Hainan Island it turned north and was shot down by the
Chinese.

Does anyone know more about the incident?

WDA
VF-24 (1956), VA-192 (1958)



end

"Mike" wrote in message
om...
Were there ever any United States combat planes lost in China during
the Vietnam war ? Some of our planes must have flown close enough to
China that they may have possibly had to crash there.

I hope the following is of some use - sources are, "Journey into Darkness" by
Col. Philip E. Smith and Peggy Herz; the POW Network SCOPE Datatbase; "Vietnam
Air Losses" by Chris Hobson and "Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club" by Rene Francillon.


09 April 1965
F-4B
151425
VF-96 - USS Ranger
Ensign Ronald J. Fegan (K/BNR)
Lt(jg). Terence M. Murphy (K/BNR)


20 September 1965
Capt. Phillip E. Smith
F-104C
56-0883
436 TFS, 479TFW (attached to 6252 TFW) Da Nang

12 April 1966
KA-3B
142653 ZB-3
Det. C, VAH-4 - USS Kitty Hawk
Lt. Cdr. William A. Glasson (MIA)
Lt(jg) Larry M. Jordan (MIA)
ATCS Reuben B. Harris (MIA)
PRCS Kenneth W. Pugh (MIA - Remains Returned 16-December 1975)
Shot down by Chinese MiGs over the Luichow Peninsula in Kuangtung province
Try this website
http://www.scopesys.com/cgi/bio2.cgi?bio=G017



21 August 1967
A-6A
152627
VA-196 - USS Constellation
Lt(jg) Dain Vanderlin Scott (KIA)
Lt(jg) Forrest George Trembley (KIA)

A-6A
152625
VA-196 - USS Constellation
Lt. Cdr Jimmy Lee Buckley (KIA)
Lt. Robert James Flynn (POW) (Ejected)



14 February 1968
A-1H
134499
VA-25 - USS Coral Sea
Lt(jg) Joseph P. Dunn (MIA)


Regards
Mike Bennett
Project: Get Out and Walk