"normal" procedure for pop-up filing

Chris wrote:
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1117123248.79333@sj-nntpcache-5...

Yes. I've gone over the top of Chicago twice on the way to OSH. You know
you can't get an IFR routing anywhere near there, so I crossed the CBAS at
10500 VFR. I was happy to have advisories as the aluminum concentration
was high. The controller seemed to be glad I was talking and squawking,
too. He did give me a couple of zigzags, but that's better than going way
out over Lake Michigan or 50 miles to the west.


Another question then: I am planning to fly from PVD Providence RI to
Madison MSN on 24/25th July. The backend on the route was to be MKG
(Muskegon), BAE (Badger) and MSN. Is it likely then that I will not get
cleared IFR through to MSN and if wanted to follow that route would be best
to cancel IFR and go VFR weather permitting even getting a pop up clearance
at MSN to descend through cloud?

I think you're OK that far north of Chicago, but I'm from NC, I only go there at
OSH time, so someone from that part of the country can give you a better answer.

Dave

"Dave Butler" wrote in message =
news:1117142284.900941@sj-nntpcache-3...
Chris wrote:
=20
Another question then: I am planning to fly from PVD Providence RI to =

Madison MSN on 24/25th July. The backend on the route was to be MKG=20
(Muskegon), BAE (Badger) and MSN. Is it likely then that I will not =
get=20
cleared IFR through to MSN and if wanted to follow that route would =
be best=20
to cancel IFR and go VFR weather permitting even getting a pop up =
clearance=20
at MSN to descend through cloud?=20
=20
I think you're OK that far north of Chicago, but I'm from NC, I only =
go there at=20
OSH time, so someone from that part of the country can give you a =
better answer.
=20
Dave

Yes, Chris will be OK flying MKG-BAE.
I routinely file direct FWA-OSH or direct FWA-BRAVE (east of Racine).
Both of those routes lie closer to Chicago's Class B than Chris' plan,
but ZAU never has a problem with them.
In fact, it seems like BRAVE may be one of the preferred hand-over =
points
for traffic arriving into Milwaukee Approach airspace.

if you file an IFR fight plan through DUATS with "VFR" as the
requested altitude it WILL go to ATC

Will it also go to FSS (to be used for SAR?)

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...

Will it also go to FSS (to be used for SAR?)


No.

: One is that if you're VFR in Class E airspace, they really don't have
: any authority to vector you (I'm sure somebody will come up with some
: exception). Sometimes controllers do try to do so anyway, but if you
: really don't want to comply, you can just say "cancel flight
: following, request frequency change" and go on your fat, dumb, and
: happy way.

That's true, but it amounts to the same thing as not calling them for
advisories in the first place. Often, you may have deviated a fair bit before you
cancel.... perhaps *into* controlled airspace and then you'd be stuck.

: The other is that if you're doing something like skirting the top of a
: Class B by 500 feet and the controller suggests a heading or route to
: you, it might just be in both of your best interests to go along with
: it. You scratch his back and he'll scratch yours. There's a lot of
: heavy metal climbing out the top of a Class B. I don't want to be the
: hood ornament on a 747, nor do I want to discover what the wake
: turbulence of one feels like.

That would be fine, if it were a heading or route for actual traffic. More
often than not, it's a "friend-vector" that takes you completely to the side of the
airspace. I don't even have a moving-map GPS and I can watch the "circle-of-vectors"
form.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:


The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.


Nope, just has to be rated for the type aircraft being operated and have
a current medical. Doesn't have to be IFR rated or current.


To operate under the conditions stated, with an IFR student on an IFR flight
plan, the safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

wrote in message
...

The biggest reason I've heard (and feel often enough) is that you're
likely to get "vectored" even if clear of controlled airspace.


I assume you mean clear of Class C or Class B airspace when you say "clear
of controlled airspace". To actually be clear of controlled airspace you'd
have to be in Class G airspace.



I've got a friend with a turbo Arrow that flies along VFR without flight
following right
over the top of Class C and Class B at 10500 or 11500. If you were to
call up
approach while doing, that, seems like 9 times out of 10 they'll vector
you 10-20
miles out of the way. Similarly if you're skirting under an airspace...
likely to get
vectored further out.


ATC shouldn't vector him over or under Class B airspace, but it's proper to
do so if need be with Class C airspace. Class C services are provided in
Class C airspace proper and also within the Outer Area.

"Though not requiring regulatory action, Class C airspace areas have a
procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C
airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of
radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated
airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as
appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)"

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap3/aim0302.html#3-2-4

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

There's two sides to this.

One is that if you're VFR in Class E airspace, they really don't have
any authority to vector you (I'm sure somebody will come up with some
exception).


The Outer Area associated with Class C airspace areas and TRSAs.

"Chris" wrote in message
...

Another question then: I am planning to fly from PVD Providence RI to
Madison MSN on 24/25th July. The backend on the route was to be MKG
(Muskegon), BAE (Badger) and MSN. Is it likely then that I will not get
cleared IFR through to MSN and if wanted to follow that route would be
best to cancel IFR and go VFR weather permitting even getting a pop up
clearance at MSN to descend through cloud?


There's no problem at all with that route. It takes you through Milwaukee
approach, not Chicago approach. MKG.V2.SUDDS is a standard arrival route so
you're going with the flow.

"John R. Copeland" wrote in message
. ..

In fact, it seems like BRAVE may be one of the preferred hand-over
points for traffic arriving into Milwaukee Approach airspace.


BRAVE is an arrival fix for Milwaukee approach.