Cost Savings for PPL

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your respond.
The airport is located at the E Class Airspace in Southern California.
My instructor always told me about the benefit to learn at the airport
with Class E airspace, which is probably true.
The reason that I put a target to my self, is to find out if the
simualtor really helps or not, and to find out if I still able to
compete with my self and my will. Its just a challange that will
motivate me to learn as hard as possible. Everybody can get PPL in
60-70 hours and everbody can finish university in 4-6 years, but whats
unique about that? nothing. Challance is like an exitement in life.
That is why I need some input from all the people in this room who has
thausands thausands hour of flying about a challanging and exiting PPL
program structure.
About my english, I still have to speak and write in English and
Chinese on daily basis. Especailly at home, since i am a thirth
generation here, I still pretty much attach to my grand-parents
language. So appologize if the grammer a little off guess.

Appreciate in advance for your input.





Bob Moore wrote:
oscarm wrote
my target is maximum 13-15 hours dual and the rest are solo. Is this
sounds reasonable?

You still haven't told us where you are located, and we certainly
can't answer your questions without knowing what regulations you
will be studying under. It doesn't sound as if English is your
native language?

Bob Moore

"oscarm" writes:

Hi Group,

I am currently attending a flying school Part 61. Since I've been
playing Flight Sim for about 15 years, on my first lesson I was able to
land the airplane right away. Thanks to Microsoft Flight Simulator.
I believed that I am a step or two step ahead compared to other student
that never realy see a cockpit or play a simulator before. Is there any
body can help me to set up a better program for me. I give my self a
target that in 45 hours I will get my PPL, It sounds funy but flight
simulator really helps me on practice and understanding how the system
works.
In this school I have to spent at least 30 hour dual flight until they
release me a solo, and learn about the radio communications and trafic
pattern on the very last section. Is this a good program or jsut trying
to get as much as hour from me. I heart a rumors that the Instructor
also wants you fly as much as possible so they will earn the hours
while I am paying it.
Please I need your Input. My Budget only $3,000. This is something that
I always wanted to do, but since I jsut have a baby I have to shrink
the budget.

Thank you for your help

Welcome to the newsgroup.

Like the other folks who have responded, I'm concerned about the
requirement of thirty hours dual before you solo. I soloed after seven
hours of dual, and like you, I thank my experience with many flight
simulator programs. Of course, flight simulators were a little different
twenty years ago, but the basics don't really change. Unless you're
having trouble learning and demonstrating the necessary skills for your
first solo, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to solo in less time
than you were quoted. If they -require- thirty hours, you should take your
logbook and your checkbook, and go somewhere else, without spending any
more money with these people.

Learning at an airport in a Class E airspace (which we call a UNICOM
field, because it doesn't have a tower) has the advantage of doing more
flying and less talking on the radio. Still, if you are going to be a
pilot in California, you'll find you need to do a lot of flying with air
traffic control, and towered fields, so don't be afraid to learn at an
airport with a control tower.

Lastly, that $3000 figure might be a problem. One thing about aviation,
everything costs a bit more than you think it will. As you continue
flying, you'll learn that you'll always be able to come up with more and
faster ways to spend your money. Unless you're willing to break your
budget on a somewhat regular basis, flying might not be for you.

You might want to check out AOPA's FAQs on this, at
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/stude.../presolo/faqs/
While you're there, maybe you will sign up for six free issues of Flight
Training magazine (click the "No Risk, enroll today") on that page.
An AOPA membership will let you read all the online content.
Note: I'm not affiliated with AOPA, but I AM a member.

Best of luck,

-Jack

HI Jack,

Thanks for your respond. you went soloed after jsut spent 7 hours, wow
thats a record so far i know. I dont think the program at my flying
school is set up that way. But 7 hours is too low for me, I am not
confident to do it in only 7 hours. I gave my self max of 13 hours, but
30 hours is seems way to much. Perhaps a $3000 budget is to low in
california and i dont mind paying more as long as they dont take an
advantage. 2 hours slow flight introduction i think that a little to
much. You are right about Class E airspace, can be a disadvantage also.
Thank you for your input, its really helps and I will defiinitely sign
up with AOPA.

Thank you

Jack Cunniff wrote:
"oscarm" writes:

Hi Group,

I am currently attending a flying school Part 61. Since I've been
playing Flight Sim for about 15 years, on my first lesson I was able to
land the airplane right away. Thanks to Microsoft Flight Simulator.
I believed that I am a step or two step ahead compared to other student
that never realy see a cockpit or play a simulator before. Is there any
body can help me to set up a better program for me. I give my self a
target that in 45 hours I will get my PPL, It sounds funy but flight
simulator really helps me on practice and understanding how the system
works.
In this school I have to spent at least 30 hour dual flight until they
release me a solo, and learn about the radio communications and trafic
pattern on the very last section. Is this a good program or jsut trying
to get as much as hour from me. I heart a rumors that the Instructor
also wants you fly as much as possible so they will earn the hours
while I am paying it.
Please I need your Input. My Budget only $3,000. This is something that
I always wanted to do, but since I jsut have a baby I have to shrink
the budget.

Thank you for your help

Welcome to the newsgroup.

Like the other folks who have responded, I'm concerned about the
requirement of thirty hours dual before you solo. I soloed after seven
hours of dual, and like you, I thank my experience with many flight
simulator programs. Of course, flight simulators were a little different
twenty years ago, but the basics don't really change. Unless you're
having trouble learning and demonstrating the necessary skills for your
first solo, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to solo in less time
than you were quoted. If they -require- thirty hours, you should take your
logbook and your checkbook, and go somewhere else, without spending any
more money with these people.

Learning at an airport in a Class E airspace (which we call a UNICOM
field, because it doesn't have a tower) has the advantage of doing more
flying and less talking on the radio. Still, if you are going to be a
pilot in California, you'll find you need to do a lot of flying with air
traffic control, and towered fields, so don't be afraid to learn at an
airport with a control tower.

Lastly, that $3000 figure might be a problem. One thing about aviation,
everything costs a bit more than you think it will. As you continue
flying, you'll learn that you'll always be able to come up with more and
faster ways to spend your money. Unless you're willing to break your
budget on a somewhat regular basis, flying might not be for you.

You might want to check out AOPA's FAQs on this, at
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/stude.../presolo/faqs/
While you're there, maybe you will sign up for six free issues of Flight
Training magazine (click the "No Risk, enroll today") on that page.
An AOPA membership will let you read all the online content.
Note: I'm not affiliated with AOPA, but I AM a member.

Best of luck,

-Jack

"oscarm" writes:

HI Jack,

Thanks for your respond. you went soloed after jsut spent 7 hours, wow
thats a record so far i know. I dont think the program at my flying
school is set up that way. But 7 hours is too low for me, I am not
confident to do it in only 7 hours. I gave my self max of 13 hours, but
30 hours is seems way to much. Perhaps a $3000 budget is to low in
california and i dont mind paying more as long as they dont take an
advantage. 2 hours slow flight introduction i think that a little to
much. You are right about Class E airspace, can be a disadvantage also.
Thank you for your input, its really helps and I will defiinitely sign
up with AOPA.

You're welcome. Glad to help out.

Most important thing is that you get the opportunity to solo, when you are
ready to do so. If the flight school says you'll solo only after thirty
hours of dual, it's something I've never heard of, and it doesn't make
sense to me. Having said that, I'm not a CFI, nor do I want to be one.

Best of luck!

-Jack

I sort of take exception to the comment the "everybody/anybody" can get PPL
or finish university. Not everyone has the drive to see it to the end.
(sort of 99% perspiration 1% inspriration theory)

Flying is a real enjoyment and doing it just to do it "fast" just doesn't
seem to be a really good reason. Maybe the new sport pilot lic is where you
want to be. If you want to experience flight take a few lessons and havie
fun on the flight sim should do it. I'm not sure you will be that safe with
going for the min for everything. I trained in the East and learning to fly
all of the seasons was worth the investment.

Who knows maybe flying will turn into a love rather than a challange. Then
welcome to the club.


"oscarm" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bob,

Thanks for your respond.
The airport is located at the E Class Airspace in Southern California.
My instructor always told me about the benefit to learn at the airport
with Class E airspace, which is probably true.
The reason that I put a target to my self, is to find out if the
simualtor really helps or not, and to find out if I still able to
compete with my self and my will. Its just a challange that will
motivate me to learn as hard as possible. Everybody can get PPL in
60-70 hours and everbody can finish university in 4-6 years, but whats
unique about that? nothing. Challance is like an exitement in life.
That is why I need some input from all the people in this room who has
thausands thausands hour of flying about a challanging and exiting PPL
program structure.
About my english, I still have to speak and write in English and
Chinese on daily basis. Especailly at home, since i am a thirth
generation here, I still pretty much attach to my grand-parents
language. So appologize if the grammer a little off guess.

Appreciate in advance for your input.





Bob Moore wrote:
oscarm wrote
my target is maximum 13-15 hours dual and the rest are solo. Is this
sounds reasonable?

You still haven't told us where you are located, and we certainly
can't answer your questions without knowing what regulations you
will be studying under. It doesn't sound as if English is your
native language?

Bob Moore

Hi TF,

Thank you for your respond. That is true, I always told my wife that
this is an investment and not just a hobby. But i just want to make
sure that i am investing at the right school.

National average until they release solo is about 12-15 hours. I jsut
want to make sure that the school program is set up like that. From
AOPA also shows about 12-15 hours before solo also. So why they want 30
hours? Sport pilot might not a good choice for me, I want to be able to
fly with my family, vacation etc. I just finish my first flight, I
might looking around somewhere else to do some comparison.

Thanks TF

TF wrote:
I sort of take exception to the comment the "everybody/anybody" can get PPL
or finish university. Not everyone has the drive to see it to the end.
(sort of 99% perspiration 1% inspriration theory)

Flying is a real enjoyment and doing it just to do it "fast" just doesn't
seem to be a really good reason. Maybe the new sport pilot lic is where you
want to be. If you want to experience flight take a few lessons and havie
fun on the flight sim should do it. I'm not sure you will be that safe with
going for the min for everything. I trained in the East and learning to fly
all of the seasons was worth the investment.

Who knows maybe flying will turn into a love rather than a challange. Then
welcome to the club.


"oscarm" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bob,

Thanks for your respond.
The airport is located at the E Class Airspace in Southern California.
My instructor always told me about the benefit to learn at the airport
with Class E airspace, which is probably true.
The reason that I put a target to my self, is to find out if the
simualtor really helps or not, and to find out if I still able to
compete with my self and my will. Its just a challange that will
motivate me to learn as hard as possible. Everybody can get PPL in
60-70 hours and everbody can finish university in 4-6 years, but whats
unique about that? nothing. Challance is like an exitement in life.
That is why I need some input from all the people in this room who has
thausands thausands hour of flying about a challanging and exiting PPL
program structure.
About my english, I still have to speak and write in English and
Chinese on daily basis. Especailly at home, since i am a thirth
generation here, I still pretty much attach to my grand-parents
language. So appologize if the grammer a little off guess.

Appreciate in advance for your input.





Bob Moore wrote:
oscarm wrote
my target is maximum 13-15 hours dual and the rest are solo. Is this
sounds reasonable?

You still haven't told us where you are located, and we certainly
can't answer your questions without knowing what regulations you
will be studying under. It doesn't sound as if English is your
native language?

Bob Moore

TF wrote:

Flying is a real enjoyment and doing it just to do it "fast" just doesn't
seem to be a really good reason.

Not to mention that learning to fly WELL is more difficult than learning
to fly as quickly as possible. Anyone who uses time to solo or get to
the checkride as the major determinant of piloting skill is missing the
point. I soloed and got to my checkride rather quickly, but I count the
support of other local pilots (unloggable right seat flying time) and my
aerodynamic understanding from a radio control background as big boosters.

After reading some follow ups, and realizing that the OP hasn't actually
flown much, I'm wondering if he's misinterpreting a written syllabus.

For example, if you read the Jeppesen PP syllabus, it might appear that
you need 30 hours to solo, by the number of lessons and checks, but not
all of the time is actual Hobbs flight time. For example, the entire
syllabus includes at least three stage checks (flying with a different
instructor) before the checkride for a total of 4.5 to 5 hours of flight
time that isn't completely instructional, but is worthwhile neverless.

Then again, there's solo, and there's solo. Some free form instructors
may solo the student earlier than a school following a purchased
program, like the Jepp. I remember having to be proficient an all PTS
manuevers (less X-country skills), including engine-outs, before I was
allowed to solo in the home pattern at a 141 school. Others who worked
with less stuctured, independent instructors soloed far faster, but
spent just as much, or more time post-solo doing dual maneuvers.

Hi TF,

That is true flying is a real enjoyment, and its been my dream for a
long time. AOPA is a really good websides, i learned a lot from that
webside and actually open my eyes. I made a mistake choosing schools
without doing some research. I believe if I follow the school program,
it will take me 22 hours hoobs time until I get to pre solo 1 and 2.
and about 1 hour ground brieving before each flying lesson. Ground
school is separate.
Is there a standart program from FAA, or each flying school actually
set up their own program. Can I ask my instructur to teach me the radio
communication on the thirth flight instead of the 20th? Because the
requirements from FAA is only minimum of 40 combine hours, and I dont
see any standart curriculum.

Thank you TF


B A R R Y wrote:
TF wrote:

Flying is a real enjoyment and doing it just to do it "fast" just doesn't
seem to be a really good reason.

Not to mention that learning to fly WELL is more difficult than learning
to fly as quickly as possible. Anyone who uses time to solo or get to
the checkride as the major determinant of piloting skill is missing the
point. I soloed and got to my checkride rather quickly, but I count the
support of other local pilots (unloggable right seat flying time) and my
aerodynamic understanding from a radio control background as big boosters.

After reading some follow ups, and realizing that the OP hasn't actually
flown much, I'm wondering if he's misinterpreting a written syllabus.

For example, if you read the Jeppesen PP syllabus, it might appear that
you need 30 hours to solo, by the number of lessons and checks, but not
all of the time is actual Hobbs flight time. For example, the entire
syllabus includes at least three stage checks (flying with a different
instructor) before the checkride for a total of 4.5 to 5 hours of flight
time that isn't completely instructional, but is worthwhile neverless.

Then again, there's solo, and there's solo. Some free form instructors
may solo the student earlier than a school following a purchased
program, like the Jepp. I remember having to be proficient an all PTS
manuevers (less X-country skills), including engine-outs, before I was
allowed to solo in the home pattern at a 141 school. Others who worked
with less stuctured, independent instructors soloed far faster, but
spent just as much, or more time post-solo doing dual maneuvers.

"oscarm" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi TF,

That is true flying is a real enjoyment, and its been my dream for a
long time. AOPA is a really good websides, i learned a lot from that
webside and actually open my eyes. I made a mistake choosing schools
without doing some research. I believe if I follow the school program,
it will take me 22 hours hoobs time until I get to pre solo 1 and 2.
and about 1 hour ground brieving before each flying lesson. Ground
school is separate.
Is there a standart program from FAA, or each flying school actually
set up their own program. Can I ask my instructur to teach me the radio
communication on the thirth flight instead of the 20th? Because the
requirements from FAA is only minimum of 40 combine hours, and I dont
see any standart curriculum.

Thank you TF

You need to run (not walk, RUN) away from that school as fast as you can.
Each school can establish it's own syllabus but it must meet FAA minimum
criteria to be approved. The Cessna FAR 141 approved training syllabus has
you soloing on flight lesson ten, (not necessarily the tenth flight, some
lessons may take more than one flight to complete) and radio procedures from
flight lesson one. I would like to see a copy of the school's syllabus you
are with.

Allen

oscarm wrote:
Because the
requirements from FAA is only minimum of 40 combine hours, and I dont
see any standart curriculum.

The closest thing to a "standard curriculum" is the FAA's "Practical
Test Standards" (PTS), which is the document containing the _minimum_
standards you will be judged on when you take check rides or flight
reviews. You can buy your own copy at most flight schools for about $7,
or you can ask to read one at the school.

School syllabuses and instructional materials are commercial products,
sold by private companies, like Jeppesen. Is there a brand name on your
books?

Have you actually asked other live, local pilots about your school's
reputation? You know, walk up to some of them, in person, and TALK to
them about your school and other local schools? Can you post the name
of the school here?


I think trying to get any school to teach you things in a different
order based on what you (as a ~2 hour student) think is correct is
silly, since right now you really don't know enough to know what you
don't know.