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#11
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
T o d d P a t t i s t writes:
FAR 91.119 Thanks. It doesn't seem to define a "congested area," though, and I don't see that in the general definitions, either. I wonder if that just means Manhattan, or any area within city limits, or what. "Congested areas" have higher minimums. Yes, but it doesn't say what makes a place a congested area. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#12
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
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#13
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
I consider it to be congested if it is subdivided into lots (as opposed
to agricultural land). |
#14
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
On 2 Jan 2007 14:57:01 -0600, T o d d P a t t i s t
wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: "Congested areas" have higher minimums. Yes, but it doesn't say what makes a place a congested area. When you find out, tell us. The FAA seems happy to not define it and leave it to the pilot to prove it wasn't congested when they decide to say it is. Bingo. The feds hold their cards close to their chest on this one. It's congested if they say it's congested, and not if they say it's not. Unfortunately, there is no way for the average aviator to figure out which is which by reading and interpreting the regs.... Bela P. Havasreti |
#15
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
T o d d P a t t i s t wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: "Congested areas" have higher minimums. Yes, but it doesn't say what makes a place a congested area. When you find out, tell us. The FAA seems happy to not define it and leave it to the pilot to prove it wasn't congested when they decide to say it is. LOL. I recall at one time, people claiming that the yellow portions on a sectional were the officially "congested" parts. Kev |
#16
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
if you know the answer.. why do you ask..
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... writes: In Canada it's the same, with the proviso attached "except when taking off or landing." 91-119 also says "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing ..." -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#17
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
The minimum safe altitude is not dictated by the airspace, but by
whether you are VFR or IFR, and whether or not you are flying over congested areas. For details see: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov and go to 14CFR Part 91 section 119. Mxsmanic wrote: What regulations determine the absolute lowest altitude you can fly above the ground in the U.S.? I understand that the area just above the ground is usually Class G outside airports, and it only goes up to 700 or 1200 feet most of the time ... which implies that you can actually fly at 500 feet AGL if you want. But is there some other regulation that prohibits aircraft from flying this low, in general or in certain conditions/areas? -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#18
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
Bela P. Havasreti wrote:
Bingo. The feds hold their cards close to their chest on this one. It's congested if they say it's congested, and not if they say it's not. Unfortunately, there is no way for the average aviator to figure out which is which by reading and interpreting the regs.... Exactly. And if you have an accident or someone complains, then it can easily become "congested" :-) Now if Mxsmanic says "well that's stupid, how does anyone know?", then he's right. It's one of the zillion little you-know-it when-you-see-it kind of rules in aviation. Like the vague "familiar with all available information" rule. (14 CFR 91.103) === That said, here's some digging on "congested areas" that sheds a little light: Letter from a state aviation counsel: http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=8604 "There is no standard definition of what is a 'congested area' or 'open air assembly of persons', but case law has indicated that a subdivision of homes constitutes a congested area, as does a small rural town" === "General Aviation Operations Inspector's Handbook, Order 8700.1". http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...spectors/8700/ From that (btw, check out Chapter 56, ramp inspections), we go to Chapter 102. Although it's about helicopter load operations, it seems to have the only definitions I've seen, vague as they a http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...a/2_102_00.pdf "The congested nature of an area is defined by what exists on the surface, not the size of the area. While the presence of the nonparticipating public is the most important determination of congested, the area may also be congested with structures or objects. An area considered congested for airplane operations could be equally congested for helicopters. If an airplane flying over a congested area at less than 1,000 feet above ground level (AGL) is in violation of 14 CFR § 91.119(b), the area may also be a congested area for a helicopter conducting external load operations. However, the most important word in this concept is 'over.' Helicopters can operate over relatively small uncongested areas because of their maneuvering abilities. (b) Densely Populated Area. Title 14 CFR §§ 91.313 and 133.45(d) use the term "densely populated" area. Those areas of a city, town, or settlement that contain a large number of occupied homes, factories, stores, schools, and other structures are considered densely populated. Additionally, a densely populated area may not contain any buildings but could consist of a large gathering of persons on a beach, at an airshow, at a ball game, or at a fairground. NOTE: While the presence of the nonparticipating public is the most important determination of congested, this definition also applies to structures, buildings and personal property. The congested nature of an area is defined by what exists on the surface, not the size of the area." Cheers, Kev |
#19
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Absolute lowest altitude you can fly (legally)
On 2 Jan 2007 10:36:53 -0800, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote: wrote: Above open water, you can fly as low as you want, as long as you don't buzz a boat or swimmer, etc. Same thing over land as long as you maintain the FAR clearances. That was always very frustrating for me when I was flying sea planes. Even though technically for landing you can get closer our OPs Specs required us to stay above 500feet w/i 1/2 mile of any person, structure Around here that'd be impossible. On top of that it's not just water skiiers, but boats and jet skies(personal watercraft) try to see just how close they can get. of vessel. That made it hard sometimes to land. We'd fly final weaving around to avoid getting close to water skiiers. Sometimes they'd come right up to us as we're taking off. Very frustrating. On a giant lake these little skiiers would seek you out. Sometimes, flying between the canyon walls setting up for landing, you'd come upon a boat sitting there fishing. Nothing you can do about that. Yup! I loved that opening scene from "Always". :-)) -Robert Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
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