Logging Approach Question

Tonight I was flying back to SQL GPS 30. There was a dense, 100' thick
ceiling covering half the airport at 800' AGL/MSL. I was
in VMC the whole time yet it probably would have been illegal
to fly in VFR as I would have been close to the clouds (see note
below about this). So even though visibility was 10nm below
the clouds, only have the airport had the ceiling and I never
passed through any clouds, I presume I can still log this
as an approach in "actual."

So can you actually log an approach in actual and never go through
IMC? Sounds strange but I guess you are able to do this. Same
goes passing through a broken layer.


Note: my passenger picked out a plane probably at about 600' flying
from PAO to SQL while I was on final. I called out on CTAF (tower
was closed) and didn't hear anything. I wouldn't be surprised
they kept hush knowing they were breaking the regulations. I
had not cancelled IFR and was on the approach and ended up doing
a 360 and climbing. I contacted approach immediately telling him
what I was doing but it could have caused a go around for a heavy
if there was an inbound a/c going into SFO. Fortunately
no one was around. Fortunately my passenger saw the traffic
as they were below me, I was in a low wing, night, with clouds
around and I wasn't expecting him.

Gerald

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:05:48 GMT, Gerald Sylvester
wrote:

So can you actually log an approach in actual and never go through
IMC?

Huh?

What definitions are you using for "actual" and "IMC"?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

I wojuld say no. You made a vistual approach in VMC.

Mike
MU-2


"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
m...

Tonight I was flying back to SQL GPS 30. There was a dense, 100' thick
ceiling covering half the airport at 800' AGL/MSL. I was
in VMC the whole time yet it probably would have been illegal
to fly in VFR as I would have been close to the clouds (see note
below about this). So even though visibility was 10nm below
the clouds, only have the airport had the ceiling and I never
passed through any clouds, I presume I can still log this
as an approach in "actual."

So can you actually log an approach in actual and never go through
IMC? Sounds strange but I guess you are able to do this. Same
goes passing through a broken layer.


Note: my passenger picked out a plane probably at about 600' flying
from PAO to SQL while I was on final. I called out on CTAF (tower
was closed) and didn't hear anything. I wouldn't be surprised
they kept hush knowing they were breaking the regulations. I
had not cancelled IFR and was on the approach and ended up doing
a 360 and climbing. I contacted approach immediately telling him
what I was doing but it could have caused a go around for a heavy
if there was an inbound a/c going into SFO. Fortunately
no one was around. Fortunately my passenger saw the traffic
as they were below me, I was in a low wing, night, with clouds
around and I wasn't expecting him.

Gerald

Mike Rapoport wrote:
I wojuld say no. You made a vistual approach in VMC.

It was not a 'visual approach.' I required a GPS approach
but the approach kept me in VMC that was below VFR....
(500 below, 1000 feet above, etc. for each airspace).

Gerald

Gerald Sylvester wrote:
Mike Rapoport wrote:
I wojuld say no. You made a vistual approach in VMC.

It was not a 'visual approach.' I required a GPS approach
but the approach kept me in VMC that was below VFR....
(500 below, 1000 feet above, etc. for each airspace).

Could you control the aircraft using outside references (only)?

Hilton

Hilton wrote:
Could you control the aircraft using outside references (only)?

I could see the cloud layer and I could see the lights through the haze
so for the most yes. could I see a defined horizon, definitely
not as there are many black hills, the San francisco bay that was
black and it was night time. And the airport was obscurred until
turning onto the FA Course as the initial approach course was
over the black clouds.

So overall, really this is a grey area. I'm definitely leaning
towards that I can't count it even though I highly depended on it.
Part of the issue was that I was not free to fly anywhere
due to the SFO Bravo pushing down onto the cloud layer.
It shouldn't matter all that
much as I did 5 partial panel with failed GPS approach a couple
of weeks earlier under the hood. Being new to the game, I don't
plan on letting my skills deteriorate from lack of use.

thanks everyone.

Gerald

Gerald wrote:
So overall, really this is a grey area.

Sure sounds like it.

BTW: Wasn't that SQL GPS marked N/A for a really long time, or am I thinking
of another approach?

Hilton

You did not have to fly soley by reference to instruments, so it was a
visual approach even though it was below VFR minimiums. If you didn't even
have to look at the instruments, I don't see how it could be considered an
actual instrument approach.

Mike
MU-2


"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
. ..
Mike Rapoport wrote:
I wojuld say no. You made a vistual approach in VMC.

It was not a 'visual approach.' I required a GPS approach
but the approach kept me in VMC that was below VFR....
(500 below, 1000 feet above, etc. for each airspace).

Gerald

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
. ..

It was not a 'visual approach.' I required a GPS approach
but the approach kept me in VMC that was below VFR....
(500 below, 1000 feet above, etc. for each airspace).


You described VFR conditions. Why did you require the GPS approach?

Of course not. Surprised that you would ask the question.

Bob Gardner

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
m...

Tonight I was flying back to SQL GPS 30. There was a dense, 100' thick
ceiling covering half the airport at 800' AGL/MSL. I was
in VMC the whole time yet it probably would have been illegal
to fly in VFR as I would have been close to the clouds (see note
below about this). So even though visibility was 10nm below
the clouds, only have the airport had the ceiling and I never
passed through any clouds, I presume I can still log this
as an approach in "actual."

So can you actually log an approach in actual and never go through
IMC? Sounds strange but I guess you are able to do this. Same
goes passing through a broken layer.


Note: my passenger picked out a plane probably at about 600' flying
from PAO to SQL while I was on final. I called out on CTAF (tower
was closed) and didn't hear anything. I wouldn't be surprised
they kept hush knowing they were breaking the regulations. I
had not cancelled IFR and was on the approach and ended up doing
a 360 and climbing. I contacted approach immediately telling him
what I was doing but it could have caused a go around for a heavy
if there was an inbound a/c going into SFO. Fortunately
no one was around. Fortunately my passenger saw the traffic
as they were below me, I was in a low wing, night, with clouds
around and I wasn't expecting him.

Gerald