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#21
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UPDATE Starter question
On Jan 30, 3:42 pm, A Lieberma wrote:
A Lieberma wrote 8.18: Update to the below posting. My A&P pulled my plane in. Bear with me on this, but the bendex or selenoids????? needed a good WD40ing and that fixed the starter problem. MY GUESS is the cold weather gummed up the works? Dunno. The starter is still in good shape from what my A&P said. It's an prestolite starter for those that asked what kind of starter I had in my plane. I described the problem in the third paragraph in my original post, initially, when he called me, he said I had a bad turn coordinator causing the noise that I best described to him as a gyro winding down after the master switch was put on. He called me back a second time and said, it wasn't the turn coordinator that was broken. The turn coordinator wasn't getting enough volts to keep it running, so it would start up, and then shut down as the battery was only putting out 9 volts. I had a new battery installed in 02/03, so I guess I was on the end life of the battery. This should fix all problems (I hope) and will fly it in the pattern tomorrow to make sure all systems are go. Now, all of this raises a couple of question. Exactly what is the ammeter for if I wasn't showing any sign of discharge on a battery not running full tilt? When I put the master on, it was exactly where it is everytime I started the plane, with no sign if discharge. I know the meter works, as when I put my landing light on, it will swing to the left. When I fire the engine, the needle swings slightly right and settles back in the middle. When the battery does go belly up, does the starter click like a car when a bad battery is the problem? Thanks all for the input! Allen Went flying today. Go to crank the engine for start, nothing. Turn the key, got like a jiggle of the prop. Turn all electrical things off, figuring the battery drained, and then started just the alt and bat, same thing, jiggle of the prop. Tried once more, and got the prop to turn and fired right up. Just had the durn starter replaced in July with a new one. I don't think it was the battery, as nothing moved when I turned the key, just a strange noise, no clicking like it would sound with a dead battery. When I fired up the master and alternator, I heard a noise sounding like something was draining the battery, yet the meter was stable in the middle, not indicating any discharge. Last week, when I cranked it, it struggled on the first turn of the prop, but it started, so I had attributed it to maybe my battery being low, it being very cold by MS standards, but after today, watching the electrical amnmeter, the load was fine once the engine was running. Am I having a bad run of starters, or should I be looking elsewhere for a problem? Grant you, I try to fly two times a week, but I would think I would have gotten more starts out of this starter then 6 months worth. Plane normally starts with one or two turns of the prop, so it's not like the starter is running for any period of time or been abused. Allen- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - According to the Battery Tender folks, the health of the battery can be determined by measuring the voltage across the terminals after the battery has been at rest for about 24 hrs. A full 100% charged battery will show 12.9 volts, and a fully discharged one will show 11.4 volts. If a battery shows 12.05 volts, halfway in between, it has 50% capacity. Mine shows 12.6 volts, which is 80% of full charge. Here is there website explaining it in more detail http://batterytender.com/faqs.php/#1 Bud |
#22
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UPDATE Starter question
David Lesher wrote in news:epoqih$kks$1
@reader2.panix.com: The "no crank" you experienced means insufficent voltage at the starter innards. Its cause could be: discharged/bad battery [low source voltage] or bad connections -- be they at the battery terminals, the starter cables, the solonoid, or inside the starter. One thing for sure David, New battery, I am sure my A&P cleaned the battery connections and I am pretty sure he would have inspected the connections so that will be ruling out any further issues should I have any. He has been extremely thorough in the five years I have been doing business with him. Allen |
#23
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UPDATE Starter question
Don Tuite wrote in
: Are we talking about a Piper? If so, the "ammeter" is a "load" meter that reads current. It shows how much current stuff in the airplane is sucking. If you have the pitot and landing lights on, it should show a pretty heavy load. Most of the time, it doesn't indicate much, because radios and stuff don't present a very big load. Don, We are talking about a Sundowner, and it does exactly what you describe when I put on the landing light and pitot heat. Though landing light seems to pull a heck of a load for a simple light, but been told that's normal. Pitot heat doesn't pull as much load. Thanks all for explaining the ammeter! Allen |
#24
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UPDATE Starter question
In article ,
Don Tuite wrote: It shows how much current stuff in the airplane is sucking. I only read this newsgroup for the technical discussions. :-) |
#25
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UPDATE Starter question
Do NOT use WD40!! WD40 turns into a stickey mess in a short period of
time. After using WD40 in a few months or less the bendix will stick and will not extend to engage even though the starter spins. Use 50% motor oil and 50% STP or straight 50w motor oil NOT WD40. On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:42:17 GMT, A Lieberma wrote: A Lieberma wrote in .18: Update to the below posting. My A&P pulled my plane in. Bear with me on this, but the bendex or selenoids????? needed a good WD40ing and that fixed the starter problem. MY GUESS is the cold weather gummed up the works? Dunno. The starter is still in good shape from what my A&P said. It's an prestolite starter for those that asked what kind of starter I had in my plane. I described the problem in the third paragraph in my original post, initially, when he called me, he said I had a bad turn coordinator causing the noise that I best described to him as a gyro winding down after the master switch was put on. He called me back a second time and said, it wasn't the turn coordinator that was broken. The turn coordinator wasn't getting enough volts to keep it running, so it would start up, and then shut down as the battery was only putting out 9 volts. I had a new battery installed in 02/03, so I guess I was on the end life of the battery. This should fix all problems (I hope) and will fly it in the pattern tomorrow to make sure all systems are go. Now, all of this raises a couple of question. Exactly what is the ammeter for if I wasn't showing any sign of discharge on a battery not running full tilt? When I put the master on, it was exactly where it is everytime I started the plane, with no sign if discharge. I know the meter works, as when I put my landing light on, it will swing to the left. When I fire the engine, the needle swings slightly right and settles back in the middle. When the battery does go belly up, does the starter click like a car when a bad battery is the problem? Thanks all for the input! Allen Went flying today. Go to crank the engine for start, nothing. Turn the key, got like a jiggle of the prop. Turn all electrical things off, figuring the battery drained, and then started just the alt and bat, same thing, jiggle of the prop. Tried once more, and got the prop to turn and fired right up. Just had the durn starter replaced in July with a new one. I don't think it was the battery, as nothing moved when I turned the key, just a strange noise, no clicking like it would sound with a dead battery. When I fired up the master and alternator, I heard a noise sounding like something was draining the battery, yet the meter was stable in the middle, not indicating any discharge. Last week, when I cranked it, it struggled on the first turn of the prop, but it started, so I had attributed it to maybe my battery being low, it being very cold by MS standards, but after today, watching the electrical amnmeter, the load was fine once the engine was running. Am I having a bad run of starters, or should I be looking elsewhere for a problem? Grant you, I try to fly two times a week, but I would think I would have gotten more starts out of this starter then 6 months worth. Plane normally starts with one or two turns of the prop, so it's not like the starter is running for any period of time or been abused. Allen |
#26
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UPDATE Starter question
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#27
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UPDATE Starter question
wrote:
According to the Battery Tender folks, the health of the battery can be determined by measuring the voltage across the terminals after the battery has been at rest for about 24 hrs. A full 100% charged battery will show 12.9 volts, and a fully discharged one will show 11.4 volts. IMHO, the 12.9 V figure is a little high. I usually expect and see about 12.60 - 12.65 V for a fully charged flooded lead-acid starting battery. For whatever it might be worth, http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htm has about the same numbers. I've used the Battery Tender chargers and they work well, but I am also not surprised that a manufacturer of battery chargers gives a figure for "fully charged" that probably makes many batteries tend to look discharged. Never ask a barber if you need a haircut. Disclaimer: This is based on experience with flooded and VRLA/AGM batteries for starting and traction on ground vehicles. I don't have an A&P; I don't even have a TG&Y. I don't get money or other consideration from any of the companies mentioned. Matt Roberds |
#28
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UPDATE Starter question
On Jan 30, 11:43 pm, wrote:
wrote: According to the Battery Tender folks, the health of the battery can be determined by measuring the voltage across the terminals after the battery has been at rest for about 24 hrs. A full 100% charged battery will show 12.9 volts, and a fully discharged one will show 11.4 volts. IMHO, the 12.9 V figure is a little high. I usually expect and see about 12.60 - 12.65 V for a fully charged flooded lead-acid starting battery. For whatever it might be worth,http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htmhas about the same numbers. I've used the Battery Tender chargers and they work well, but I am also not surprised that a manufacturer of battery chargers gives a figure for "fully charged" that probably makes many batteries tend to look discharged. Never ask a barber if you need a haircut. Disclaimer: This is based on experience with flooded and VRLA/AGM batteries for starting and traction on ground vehicles. I don't have an A&P; I don't even have a TG&Y. I don't get money or other consideration from any of the companies mentioned. Matt Roberds Thanks for the resource, it has a lot of detailed information. They state the following: "Depending on the plate chemistry, the Open Circuit Voltage can range from 12.6 to 13.1 for fully charged wet "Maintenance Free" (Ca/ Ca) batteries and tend to be higher in deep cycle than in car (or starting) batteries. " This goes with what little I had heard about aircarft vs car batteries, which is that aircraft batteries have a slightly higher voltage than car batteries. Seems that it depends on the type of battery one has, so the 12.9 is maybe an absolute maximum. I don't know for sure. I'll just keep reading. Regards, Bud |
#29
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UPDATE Starter question
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#30
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UPDATE Starter question
wrote in message ... wrote: I've used the Battery Tender chargers and they work well, They get my vote as well! particularly if you have a battery that you want to leave on float for a long time without the slightest worry of overcharging. but I am also not surprised that a manufacturer of battery chargers gives a figure for "fully charged" that probably makes many batteries tend to look discharged. Don't forget the "load testers" that automotive mechanics use. What they do is test the internal resistance of the battery, which tends to increase rapidly at end of battery life. A load tester is also good for testing your battery connections. battery leads, and ground straps. That said, I prefer to test battery connections and cables by putting a smaller load on the battery (headlights, landing light) and probe across each connection and each cable with a voltmeter set to the lowest scale. Any voltage drop over .1 volt bears investigation. Vaughn |
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