Hey, Germany Invented It... Face It

"Tex Houston" wrote in message ...
"Erich Adler" wrote in message
m...
I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?


I was reading this seriously until you talked about that paragon of
stealthiness, the U-2. After I got through laughing I read the rest. Great
parody. You have a talent there. Never lose your sense of humor.

Tex

Laugh this off Tex. The US captured the DFS 228 rocket recon sailplane
in 1945 and took it back home. The aircraft was designed to fly at
(wait for this)... 80,000 ft and carry two Zeiss cameras (IR types
too).
So you think the U-2 came from US sources... uh, no. The funny thing
is the DFS even had a pressurized escape pod, something the U-2
didn't.
And then of course is the German radar-absorbing paint
"Schornsteinfeger"- a carbon paint to scatter radar that was the
inspiration for US Ironball paint applied to the U-2. I agree it
wasn't that effective for that time period, but the US got the idea
from the Germans.
Germans had stealth first- a fact you cannot deny. The Go-229 flew in
Feb 1945, a hell of a long time before the B-2.
Still laughing?

Rob

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Erich Adler" wrote in message
m...
I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?

I live in America now but don't like the blatant arrogance I see
whenever history is talked about in regards to military aircraft.
Every American I have had discussions with usually end up in disaster
because the ignorant American can't get it through his thick skull
that they owe practically everything to Germany in the field of modern
military aviation.

We could discuss Allied centrifugal jets that lost out in the long
run. German engineers told them that in 1945.

American and US companies were already working on axial flow designs
before the end of the war. They knew very well that the centrifugal
design had a limited scope for development but they also knew
it would be easier to produce a reliable engine that way. This
turned out to be correct.

Only due to the German lack of strategic materials for higher quality
jet construction. Nevertheless, they did remarkably well with
synthetic lubricants and materials to keep their jets flying. Their
latter axial designs were much greater than your postwar centrifugals
and one engine the DB 109-016 which was tested in March 1945 produced
28,652 lb thrust making it the world's most powerful jet at the time.
The Germans also invented the afterburner with the Jumo 004E at the
end of the war. Postwar, the Soviets made good use of other designs,
especially the German derived turboprops.

We could discuss the US
reliance on German wind tunnel data to build a large variety of
postwar military aircraft and research aircraft. We could discuss the
various guns and missile systems copied by the US and Allies to be
applied to those military aircraft. We could talk about the German
invention of stealth that the US applied to both the U-2 and SR-71.
Lastly we could talk about the taboo discs and forms of propulsion
beyond the axial-flow Jumo 004B, which was way beyong US science of
the time and not even perfected until possibly the late 1980s or '90s.


Bull**** , the Jumo 004B was a typical first generation engine in terms
of performance with woeful reliability and had poorer performance
than the Derwent. This is of course why the Soviets used the
RR centrifugal engine in the Mig-15

Can't you read, he said the engines BEYOND the Jumo 004B- the disc
engines, which created rotating electromagnetic fields, very similar
to the suspected engines of the black craft flying today... only the
Nazis seemed to have got that engine working in the '40s instead of
the '80s, '90s, 00's(?).

Rob

Keith

(Peter Stickney) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(ANDREW ROBERT BREEN) writes:
In article ,
Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Erich Adler" wrote in message
We could discuss Allied centrifugal jets that lost out in the long
run. German engineers told them that in 1945.

Uh, no. You're thinking "Metropolitan-Vickers in 1943"

Or GE in 1941 (TG-100/T-31)
Or GE in 1944 (TG-180/J35)
Or Westinghouse in 1943 (X19/J30)
Or...

Maybe so, but the point here is that it was the US experts that asked
the Germans what they believed to be the future and why. The Germans
did explain that the axial-flow engine would prevail.
Using your explanation above it makes the US and Britain look foolish
since they continued with centrifugal engine production. If they had
knowledge of axial superiority and the materials, time, money, and
skill to build them then why not?

Axial compressors, and their potential benefits, were well known long
before with Whittle or von Ohain ran their engines. In fact, one of
the reasons that the RAF was so reluctant to find Whittles'
experiements was becasue the Air Minitry's tame Gas Turbine expert,
Griffith, was so enamoured of his own over-complicated, unsuccessful
axial complressor designs that he refused to believe that compressors
could, in fact, be that simple.

American and US companies were already working on axial flow designs
before the end of the war. They knew very well that the centrifugal
design had a limited scope for development but they also knew
it would be easier to produce a reliable engine that way. This
turned out to be correct.

Thats BS. Had the Germans had the materials available that the Allies
did, more time, and no bombardment they could have proceeded with much
greater designs in both jets and rocket powerplants.

And at twice the power of anything the Germans ever achieved. The J33
and J35 both ran in early 1944, The Rolls Nene, developed as a
response to the J33, ran in late '44. Westinghouse was running the
J30, mentioned above, the J32 9.5" diameter missile engine, and the
J34, and Metrovick had the Beryl in production adn were working on the
Sapphire by the time anyone on the Allied side got to touch a German
engine.


Yep. Metrovick had a very tasty axial-flow engine (the basis of
Armstrong-Siddeley and later Bristol-Siddeley engines to come)
flying in late 1943. Not a bad engine at all. And a fighter
powered by two of 'em was testing before the end of the war
(intended for pacific operations).

Refer to earlier post, the DB 109-016 was tested in March 1945 at
28,652 lb thrust- the world's greatest jet engine of the time.

Bull**** , the Jumo 004B was a typical first generation engine in terms
of performance with woeful reliability and had poorer performance
than the Derwent. This is of course why the Soviets used the
RR centrifugal engine in the Mig-15

And why one Adolf Galland - who flew both - rated the Meteor as
a better fighter than the 262. It had *much* better engines.
I'll grant that he did say the 262 might have been better if it
had Derwents, but it would be interesting to try and mate the two.

Galland has a right to his opinion- all jet flyers do. There are those
today who would pick foreign aircraft to fly other than our own. But
then again Galland only flew the Me-262... he never flew a Vril-7 or
Haunebu disc, did he? What do you think his comments would have been
if he flew those craft?

An interesting noe in the report of U.S.A.A.F testing of war prize Me
262s at Freeman Field, Ohio, after the war is available on the Defence
Technical Information Center site:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/

One comment in the report was that they did no specific single-engine
testing - They got plenty of single-engine time due to engine failure.

Doesn't mean a thing. Of course they would experience the same problem
the Germans did because of the lack of stronger materials in the
engines. Had they removed the synthetics and weaker materials and
replaced them with what the Germans had wanted to use in the Jumo 004
then they would have gotten excellent results.
BTW, Wright's flight handbook for the Me-262 dated 1946 (an official
document) claims the Me-262 could do Mach 1 in a shallow dive. So who
cares about your engine flame-out comments?

Rob

Oh, goody, another Arndt..."practically everything", huh? Other than that
your diatribe was not too bad right up until you got to the "stealthy" U-2
(which is a rather unique claim) andthen went 'round the bend with the
"taboo discs" and tails of alleged US expeditions to Antarctica in search of
them. What a hoot.

Brooks



He could say what he wants, this is a NG. He could also be like you,
another Brooks, Keith Willshaw, Al Minyard, Dan- USAF, retired!!!

Rob

Sind sie verruckt?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Art Kramer in a German thread and NO mention of the B-26 Marauder?
Quick, somebody call me an ambulance, I think I'm going to have a
stroke!!!


Rob

robert arndt wrote:


Can't you read, he said the engines BEYOND the Jumo 004B- the disc
engines, which created rotating electromagnetic fields, very similar
to the suspected engines of the black craft flying today...


Sound like a _really_ radical development step from the 004 ;-).

Anyway, a sensible discussion of German WW2 technology should be
restricted to those devices, which actually _existed_. Again, could
you please come up with at least some sort of evidence? Other than
simply re-telling stories whose origin is either unknown or can be
traced to die-hard post-1945 nazis with about zero credibility? No?
Thought so.

You probably say it's all stored in top secret archives. If so, how do
you know? I doubt you have a security clearance ;-).

Andreas

"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
Oh, goody, another Arndt..."practically everything", huh? Other than
that
your diatribe was not too bad right up until you got to the "stealthy"
U-2
(which is a rather unique claim) andthen went 'round the bend with the
"taboo discs" and tails of alleged US expeditions to Antarctica in
search of
them. What a hoot.

Brooks



He could say what he wants, this is a NG. He could also be like you,
another Brooks, Keith Willshaw, Al Minyard, Dan- USAF, retired!!!

In other words, then he might have a clue?

Brooks


Rob

And I do not count those rather pathetic fake images of German disks all
over the web.

So, given the above, WHY THE **** [1] should I believe your drivel?!? I
believe in God, but everyone else has to present evidence.

Andreas

Well Andreas let's recount ALL the German wartime disc projects and
see what conclusions we reach:

1) Arthur Sack A.S.6: Private circular aircraft, one prototype,
constructed 1944, mostly made of wood with Me-108 cockpit and landing
gear and Argus engine. Flown by Me-163 pilot at Brandis in 1944. A few
hops and crashes due to misplacement of gear, low engine hp, and poor
rear control surfaces. Cut up for firewood. Photos exist- all real and
confirmed.

2) Fw VTOL: Circular VTOL aircraft patentented by Heinrich Focke,
patented in 1939. None built but construction of test models done
postwar. Photos exist of test models and theory of flight proven. None
constructed.

3) Viktor Schauberger Repulsin A&B Models: Discoid liquid vortex
motors. Repulsin A built 1940, tested until 1942. Repulsin B built in
1943. Both motors constructed at Mauthausen where the SS gave
Schauberger 20-30 engineers to work with him. In 1944, Schauberger was
released back to Austria. Photos exist of both motors- all real and
confirmed. SS supposedly enlarged the motors and installed them in a
version of Schriever's disc. Specifically, Miethe's design which flew
in 1944. Two photos of this disc aircraft were published in an Italian
magazine postwar. If you want them tell me and I'll post the links.
After the war, Schauberger was approached by AVRO Canada for disc
research- he declined. The US then pressured Schauberger to sign away
his designs to a US consortium. He died in 1958, robbed of everything.

4) Rudolf Schriever FlugKreisel: Schriever was an employee for Heinkel
that came up with a disc based on his observations of discus throwing
in the 1936 Nazi Olympics. His design was a circular cockpit
surrounded by a variable-pitch multi-bladed disc driven by 12 jet
engines. On the underbody two more jet engines were used for control.
Supposedly, his designs were taken by the SS (which actually DID
control all of Germany's and the occupied nations patents). Schriever
never had any control over his design which the SS assigned 3
scientists to work on: Habermohl, Miethe, and an Italian Dr. Belluzzo.
Only Miethe's design is said to have been built and it did not
resemble Schriever's original design due to the introduction of
Schauberger's Repulsin powerplant becoming available. Again, the
photos that exist are of Miethe's disc only.
When Schriever died among his papers were various disc designs along
with the original FlugKreisel.

5) BMW Flugelrad series: Disc jet-autogyros. Built at BMW Prague. All
used BMW 003 jets for power which were fitted with a thrust deflector
that reacted with another type of variable-pitch disc rotor
surrounding a cockpit. The body housed the BMW 003 and the gear was
fixed in the early models. Summary:

BMW Flugelrad I V-1: one built, flew in 1943 at Prag-Kbely. Flew up 1m
and 300m horizontally before making a rough landing. Highly unstable
and difficult to control.
BMW Flugelrad I V-2: one built, flew in 1944 at Neubiberg Aerodrome.
Cockpit enlarged for two crew, rudder added,and semi-retractable gear.
Did not fly well at all... tethered most of the time.
BMW Flugelrad II V-1: one built, flew in 1945 at Prag-Kbely. Another
jump at low altitude. All Flugelrads destroyed in April 1945.
BMW Flugelrad II V-2: under construction, not finished
BMW Flugelrad II V-3: Wind-tunnel model testing, none built
BMW Flugelrad III: Design only for stratospheric recon

No photos released yet. USAF admitted design in 1995...

6) Andreas Epps Omega Diskus: Disc with 6 fans for lift and four
rotating Pabst ramjets around the ring. Four 1/10th scale models built
and tested in 1944-45. Photos exist- real and proven. Design patented
postwar in 1956, offered to USAF. Declined. He also had an earlier
design powered by 2 jets on the body and two rotating jets above the
dome- 1939, but not patented.

7) SS Schildkrote: Possibly the mystery Feuerball (aka Foo Fighter)
menace that plagued the 415th NFS from Nov '44 to Apr '45 and then
showed up in Japan (via submarine technology transfer in Aug '45).
This one is a mystery as it has nothing to do with the Vril, Haunebu,
RFZ or any other German disc design. A photo exists of poor quality
but clearly seen is that it is unpiloted and has a large ring around
the domed body with some form of rocket motor slung underneath and 3
fixed legs. Could be an aerial flak mine to be detonated in a bomber
stream or a weapon that used Messerschmitt's electrostatic field
device that disable aircraft motors. Unknown...

8) Thule Jenseitsflugmaschine (JFM): Not an aircraft but a gateway,
portal, or some other form of otherworld travel machine. Disc form.
Constructed in 1922 and tested until 1924. Hurriedly dismantled and
stored in 1924 ending up at Messerschmitt's Augsburg facility. Fate
unknown. Several photos exist. No determination on what the thing was
except for Thule's claims of ET contact.

9) Freiberg crashed alien UFO: Disc, crashed in 1936. Supposedly
recovered by SS and taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg for
reverse engineering (modern term). More likely investigated, taken
apart and tested. Any results? Unknown. No photos.

10) Thule/Vril RFZ series: Disc aircraft with a form of
electromagnetic propulsion.
photos exist for RFZ 1,2,3,4,6 but subject to speculation.

11) Vril series: Same as above.
photos exist for Vril 1,7,8 Odin and designs for Vril 2,9.

12) Thule/Vril Haunebu series: Larger, more powerful discs running off
Thule Triebwerk engine.
photos exist for Haunebu I, II, II-DoStra,but none for III or
Andromeda Gerat

13) Fw 500: Disc jet fighter project with rotating wing blades. None
built.

14) Henri Coanda Lenticular Disc: Lenticular disc. Coanda, like
Schauberger, was arrested by the SS and forced to work on disc
designs. Only models built before the end of the war. Design would
have used Coandas suction effect and been powered by 12 internal Jumo
004 engines with forking nozzles pointing outward from the disc rim.
Was deemed too costly to construct and abandoned. Design validated in
1949 in UK and patented in US in 1952 with none constructed.

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war. Many were just
patents and projects but some flew and the most successful are also
the most elusive. As you can see the SS working with Thule/Vril;
forcing Coanda, Schauberger, Schriever, and scientists to perform; and
stealing patents from various nations all played a part in the exotic
disc construction programs.
IMO, the victorious Allies only got the more primitive jet designs
because that is the direction immediate postwar disc programs took. No
equivalent to the RFZ, Vril, or Haunebu series came about until FFX
propulsion became available in the late 80s or early 90s. The supposed
NRO TR-3B ASTRA uses a similar engine to the Thule Triebwerke but is
not a disc- its a black triangle.

Rob

p.s. In the list I did not include the Lippisch disc designs nor the
Hortens because they were strictly postwar studies at the request of
the US.

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Erich Adler" wrote in message
m...
I see that no civil discussion can take place here despite the fact
that you "adults" claim to cherish military aviation. So why all the
fuss about German aircraft, jets or otherwise?

I live in America now but don't like the blatant arrogance I see
whenever history is talked about in regards to military aircraft.
Every American I have had discussions with usually end up in disaster
because the ignorant American can't get it through his thick skull
that they owe practically everything to Germany in the field of modern
military aviation.

We could discuss Allied centrifugal jets that lost out in the long
run. German engineers told them that in 1945.

American and US companies were already working on axial flow designs
before the end of the war. They knew very well that the centrifugal
design had a limited scope for development but they also knew
it would be easier to produce a reliable engine that way. This
turned out to be correct.

Only due to the German lack of strategic materials for higher quality
jet construction. Nevertheless, they did remarkably well with
synthetic lubricants and materials to keep their jets flying. Their
latter axial designs were much greater than your postwar centrifugals
and one engine the DB 109-016 which was tested in March 1945 produced
28,652 lb thrust making it the world's most powerful jet at the time.

Of course it never actually flew

The Germans also invented the afterburner with the Jumo 004E at the
end of the war. Postwar, the Soviets made good use of other designs,
especially the German derived turboprops.

Which used more fuel and produced less thrust than the Nene


We could discuss the US
reliance on German wind tunnel data to build a large variety of
postwar military aircraft and research aircraft. We could discuss the
various guns and missile systems copied by the US and Allies to be
applied to those military aircraft. We could talk about the German
invention of stealth that the US applied to both the U-2 and SR-71.
Lastly we could talk about the taboo discs and forms of propulsion
beyond the axial-flow Jumo 004B, which was way beyong US science of
the time and not even perfected until possibly the late 1980s or '90s.


Bull**** , the Jumo 004B was a typical first generation engine in terms
of performance with woeful reliability and had poorer performance
than the Derwent. This is of course why the Soviets used the
RR centrifugal engine in the Mig-15

Can't you read, he said the engines BEYOND the Jumo 004B- the disc
engines, which created rotating electromagnetic fields, very similar
to the suspected engines of the black craft flying today... only the
Nazis seemed to have got that engine working in the '40s instead of
the '80s, '90s, 00's(?).


There is of course no evidence that anything of the sort happened

Keith

Actually you have offered ZERO "proof" whatsoever! A lot of typing but NO
proof! post some links to these alleged photos NOT line drawings.

Actually ALL German disc research comes from US research during the
revolutionary war (the hetians found the objects and returned to Europe to
tell the stories) engraved stone tablets exist, confirmed and verified.
Why do you suppose these things never had wings? Because the Wright
Brothers et al hadent devised them yet!
Arther T. Farnsworth (not THAT Art Farnsworth) of Ooopseyepinchedda dookie
Delaware devised 3 flying discs out of nothing more than wood and a kind of
plaster and a complicated series of pullys and ropes connected to pedels in
the "manbasket" as he called it. When operated the upper disc rotated
clockwise while the lower disc rotated counterclockwise and created a great
wind, or as Art called it "mother-in-law whooshing" . The wind was collected
in a complicated series of wooden troughs which brought them to the bottom
of the central area of the disc where upon they were re-ingested into the
works and the wind speed increased. Unfortunatly Art always tired before he
could develope enough thrust to actually lift off. This led to the Ox
powered version and..................


"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
And I do not count those rather pathetic fake images of German disks all
over the web.

So, given the above, WHY THE **** [1] should I believe your drivel?!? I
believe in God, but everyone else has to present evidence.

Andreas

Well Andreas let's recount ALL the German wartime disc projects and
see what conclusions we reach:

1) Arthur Sack A.S.6: Private circular aircraft, one prototype,
constructed 1944, mostly made of wood with Me-108 cockpit and landing
gear and Argus engine. Flown by Me-163 pilot at Brandis in 1944. A few
hops and crashes due to misplacement of gear, low engine hp, and poor
rear control surfaces. Cut up for firewood. Photos exist- all real and
confirmed.

2) Fw VTOL: Circular VTOL aircraft patentented by Heinrich Focke,
patented in 1939. None built but construction of test models done
postwar. Photos exist of test models and theory of flight proven. None
constructed.

3) Viktor Schauberger Repulsin A&B Models: Discoid liquid vortex
motors. Repulsin A built 1940, tested until 1942. Repulsin B built in
1943. Both motors constructed at Mauthausen where the SS gave
Schauberger 20-30 engineers to work with him. In 1944, Schauberger was
released back to Austria. Photos exist of both motors- all real and
confirmed. SS supposedly enlarged the motors and installed them in a
version of Schriever's disc. Specifically, Miethe's design which flew
in 1944. Two photos of this disc aircraft were published in an Italian
magazine postwar. If you want them tell me and I'll post the links.
After the war, Schauberger was approached by AVRO Canada for disc
research- he declined. The US then pressured Schauberger to sign away
his designs to a US consortium. He died in 1958, robbed of everything.

4) Rudolf Schriever FlugKreisel: Schriever was an employee for Heinkel
that came up with a disc based on his observations of discus throwing
in the 1936 Nazi Olympics. His design was a circular cockpit
surrounded by a variable-pitch multi-bladed disc driven by 12 jet
engines. On the underbody two more jet engines were used for control.
Supposedly, his designs were taken by the SS (which actually DID
control all of Germany's and the occupied nations patents). Schriever
never had any control over his design which the SS assigned 3
scientists to work on: Habermohl, Miethe, and an Italian Dr. Belluzzo.
Only Miethe's design is said to have been built and it did not
resemble Schriever's original design due to the introduction of
Schauberger's Repulsin powerplant becoming available. Again, the
photos that exist are of Miethe's disc only.
When Schriever died among his papers were various disc designs along
with the original FlugKreisel.

5) BMW Flugelrad series: Disc jet-autogyros. Built at BMW Prague. All
used BMW 003 jets for power which were fitted with a thrust deflector
that reacted with another type of variable-pitch disc rotor
surrounding a cockpit. The body housed the BMW 003 and the gear was
fixed in the early models. Summary:

BMW Flugelrad I V-1: one built, flew in 1943 at Prag-Kbely. Flew up 1m
and 300m horizontally before making a rough landing. Highly unstable
and difficult to control.
BMW Flugelrad I V-2: one built, flew in 1944 at Neubiberg Aerodrome.
Cockpit enlarged for two crew, rudder added,and semi-retractable gear.
Did not fly well at all... tethered most of the time.
BMW Flugelrad II V-1: one built, flew in 1945 at Prag-Kbely. Another
jump at low altitude. All Flugelrads destroyed in April 1945.
BMW Flugelrad II V-2: under construction, not finished
BMW Flugelrad II V-3: Wind-tunnel model testing, none built
BMW Flugelrad III: Design only for stratospheric recon

No photos released yet. USAF admitted design in 1995...

6) Andreas Epps Omega Diskus: Disc with 6 fans for lift and four
rotating Pabst ramjets around the ring. Four 1/10th scale models built
and tested in 1944-45. Photos exist- real and proven. Design patented
postwar in 1956, offered to USAF. Declined. He also had an earlier
design powered by 2 jets on the body and two rotating jets above the
dome- 1939, but not patented.

7) SS Schildkrote: Possibly the mystery Feuerball (aka Foo Fighter)
menace that plagued the 415th NFS from Nov '44 to Apr '45 and then
showed up in Japan (via submarine technology transfer in Aug '45).
This one is a mystery as it has nothing to do with the Vril, Haunebu,
RFZ or any other German disc design. A photo exists of poor quality
but clearly seen is that it is unpiloted and has a large ring around
the domed body with some form of rocket motor slung underneath and 3
fixed legs. Could be an aerial flak mine to be detonated in a bomber
stream or a weapon that used Messerschmitt's electrostatic field
device that disable aircraft motors. Unknown...

8) Thule Jenseitsflugmaschine (JFM): Not an aircraft but a gateway,
portal, or some other form of otherworld travel machine. Disc form.
Constructed in 1922 and tested until 1924. Hurriedly dismantled and
stored in 1924 ending up at Messerschmitt's Augsburg facility. Fate
unknown. Several photos exist. No determination on what the thing was
except for Thule's claims of ET contact.

9) Freiberg crashed alien UFO: Disc, crashed in 1936. Supposedly
recovered by SS and taken to Himmler's castle at Wewelsberg for
reverse engineering (modern term). More likely investigated, taken
apart and tested. Any results? Unknown. No photos.

10) Thule/Vril RFZ series: Disc aircraft with a form of
electromagnetic propulsion.
photos exist for RFZ 1,2,3,4,6 but subject to speculation.

11) Vril series: Same as above.
photos exist for Vril 1,7,8 Odin and designs for Vril 2,9.

12) Thule/Vril Haunebu series: Larger, more powerful discs running off
Thule Triebwerk engine.
photos exist for Haunebu I, II, II-DoStra,but none for III or
Andromeda Gerat

13) Fw 500: Disc jet fighter project with rotating wing blades. None
built.

14) Henri Coanda Lenticular Disc: Lenticular disc. Coanda, like
Schauberger, was arrested by the SS and forced to work on disc
designs. Only models built before the end of the war. Design would
have used Coandas suction effect and been powered by 12 internal Jumo
004 engines with forking nozzles pointing outward from the disc rim.
Was deemed too costly to construct and abandoned. Design validated in
1949 in UK and patented in US in 1952 with none constructed.

So Andreas there seems to be a lot of proof that the Nazis were
engaged in disc research throughout the entire war. Many were just
patents and projects but some flew and the most successful are also
the most elusive. As you can see the SS working with Thule/Vril;
forcing Coanda, Schauberger, Schriever, and scientists to perform; and
stealing patents from various nations all played a part in the exotic
disc construction programs.
IMO, the victorious Allies only got the more primitive jet designs
because that is the direction immediate postwar disc programs took. No
equivalent to the RFZ, Vril, or Haunebu series came about until FFX
propulsion became available in the late 80s or early 90s. The supposed
NRO TR-3B ASTRA uses a similar engine to the Thule Triebwerke but is
not a disc- its a black triangle.

Rob

p.s. In the list I did not include the Lippisch disc designs nor the
Hortens because they were strictly postwar studies at the request of
the US.