If you are looking for a fight...

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: Yeff
Date: 7/7/03 12:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:20:30 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote:

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.

I was in the Philippines when Desert Shield started. We'd been under a
severe terrorist threat for a couple of years before that, and when the
Desert Shield deployees started getting Imminent Danger pay the same thing
was quickly approved for us (at the PACOM admirals insistence).

Soon after that there was an urgent call from my command (Electronic
Security Command) for people in my AFSC to volunteer for the deployment.
Many people in my unit (including myself) immediately sought out further
information to see how this could be done. Turns out it couldn't for us.

The Air Force wouldn't allow us to go from one "combat zone" theater to
another (and I believe that's military-wide). Our command wouldn't even
attempt to process volunteer request coming out of the PI.

Oh, and it took less than 24 hours for the command to call for volunteers
before amending the message to say that those of us in the PI wouldn't be
considered.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com

..

Whatever happened to the old Army Air Corps that I knew and loved? Back then if
you ere l;looking ior a fight, you were damned well sure to get one. And if you
didn't get a fight, then you didn't look hard enough. (sheesh)

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 7/7/03 9:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: nk.net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Besides, I can't get out of the 40's.


Seek a therapist.


I served in a war. How about you?


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
(ArtKramr) wrote:

There has been some talk of men who wanted combat but due to "timing" or
"luck"
they missed out. Well if you are in a unit that won't get into the fight,
just
try this. Go to your CO and say," Sir, I hear the 344th is moving out to
the
ETO. I want to go with them. Here is my transfer request. Please sign
it". He
will immediately. After he signs it walk it through and you will go into
battle
with the 344th. Or of course you can just keep a low profille , keep your
mouth
shut, do nothing, then for the rest of your life you can always say " I
wanted
combat but timing and luck kept me out" and see if you can live with
that.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Sorry, Art, but you're talking about a time and process that has been
long gone. There's lots of procedure to get a transfer and it hasn't
been approved at the local commander level since WW II.

Even if one could simply get a hand-carried, personal choice
assignment approved by a local commander to switch to a deploying
unit, it would take considerable time and money to get the individual
operationally qualified to perform effectively with the organization.
Time that a unit doesn't have when they are enroute to battle.

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038



Sorry Ed, but yeah that kind of thing DOES still happen.
(In the Guard it does, anyway).

When the 24th Med was getting ready to activate and go to Bosnia in 1999, I
volunteered to go. They transferred me the next day.

In the Army Guard it is not unusual at all, to see some people bail out of
units being called up, and many others stepping up and volunteering to go.
Of course transfers go up the chain of command, but they do happen very fast
(hours verses days).

Usually there are more people wanting to go, than there are positions to
fill, or that is my experience over the last ten years.

Helomech

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

I served in a war. How about you?


Only if the Cold War counts.

Many people served in the same hot war you did, Art, but few of them feel
the need to denigrate the service of others the way you do.

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 7/7/03 10:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Kilroy" wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
Didn't take long to lower the level of discourse.

Are eee esss pee eee cee tee--just a little bit....

It is a two way street, buddy.
He needs a Valium.

Let's start out by acknowledging that WW II was a long time ago and
fortunately for most of us we haven't again seen a conflict of that
magnitude. That result may be partly attributable to the sacrifices
made by that generation. It's difficult to comprehend the involvement
of all aspects of society and the impact on folks who were involved.

We can be grateful that Art participates in the group, that he shares
his memories of his experiences and that he freely expresses his
opinions. I don't agree with everything he says and will confess that
occasionally I express that disagreement.

But, I do it with an explanation of my position and a respect for his.
Respect is definitely a two-way street and demonstrating respect isn't
just for the other guy, it reflects favorably on the respecter.

This ****ing contests regarding whose is bigger don't do much but
waste bandwidth. And, in short order we have a collection of anonymous
twits sharing their ignorance. Frankly that doesn't appeal to me.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038



Ed,

Thanks for the kind words. I don't mind argument and criticism. I rather enjoy
it. But I draw the line when someone who was never in the military, has no
combat expxerence, no hours on the air tells me what war was :"really like". I
think that sort of behavior creates new highs in the world of hubris.. But we
must never suffer fools gladly. I stay on this NG because of the large amounts
of e mail I get regularly that makes it all worthwhile.
Thanks again.



Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: "Helomech"
Date: 7/7/03 3:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
(ArtKramr) wrote:

There has been some talk of men who wanted combat but due to "timing" or
"luck"
they missed out. Well if you are in a unit that won't get into the fight,
just
try this. Go to your CO and say," Sir, I hear the 344th is moving out to
the
ETO. I want to go with them. Here is my transfer request. Please sign
it". He
will immediately. After he signs it walk it through and you will go into
battle
with the 344th. Or of course you can just keep a low profille , keep your
mouth
shut, do nothing, then for the rest of your life you can always say " I
wanted
combat but timing and luck kept me out" and see if you can live with
that.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Sorry, Art, but you're talking about a time and process that has been
long gone. There's lots of procedure to get a transfer and it hasn't
been approved at the local commander level since WW II.

Even if one could simply get a hand-carried, personal choice
assignment approved by a local commander to switch to a deploying
unit, it would take considerable time and money to get the individual
operationally qualified to perform effectively with the organization.
Time that a unit doesn't have when they are enroute to battle.

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038



Sorry Ed, but yeah that kind of thing DOES still happen.
(In the Guard it does, anyway).

When the 24th Med was getting ready to activate and go to Bosnia in 1999, I
volunteered to go. They transferred me the next day.

In the Army Guard it is not unusual at all, to see some people bail out of
units being called up, and many others stepping up and volunteering to go.
Of course transfers go up the chain of command, but they do happen very fast
(hours verses days).

Usually there are more people wanting to go, than there are positions to
fill, or that is my experience over the last ten years.

Helomech




That's just the way I remember it. Think maybe they should stick the Air
Force back into the Army so we can have the Army Air Corps again? (grin)

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

Sorry, Art, but you're talking about a time and process that has been
long gone. There's lots of procedure to get a transfer and it hasn't
been approved at the local commander level since WW II.

Even if one could simply get a hand-carried, personal choice
assignment approved by a local commander to switch to a deploying
unit, it would take considerable time and money to get the individual
operationally qualified to perform effectively with the organization.
Time that a unit doesn't have when they are enroute to battle.

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.

Ramstein, Aug 1990

2 Aug - Saddam sends his troops over the border.
7 Aug - Several USAF units deploy. Langley, Bitburg, etc.
Several others follow. Soesterberg, Torrejon, Shaw, etc.

Nothing from Ramstein and the 86th.

17 Jan 1991 - shooting starts. Still nothing from Ramstein. Our pilots were
*fuming*. As were all of us.
28 Feb 1991 - shooting stops (more or less)

Every fighter base in Europe sent aircraft, except Ramstein.

6 Apr - Task Force Provide Comfort. Ok...NOW you guys can go.

And, as you say, no way to 'volunteer' for reassignment.

Pete

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: Yeff
Date: 7/7/03 3:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 07 Jul 2003 22:09:18 GMT, ArtKramr wrote:

Whatever happened to the old Army Air Corps that I knew and loved? Back
then
if you ere l;looking ior a fight, you were damned well sure to get one. And
if you didn't get a fight, then you didn't look hard enough. (sheesh)

I was also in a critically manned career field. Volunteering to do
something else (anything else) to go over was also out of the question.

-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com


I didn't want to do anything else. Just what I was trained to do.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

" "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Go to your CO and say," Sir, I hear the 344th is moving out to
the
ETO. I want to go with them. Here is my transfer request. Please sign
it". He
will immediately.

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.


Ed Rasimus

It NEVER happened that way and why doesn't everyone stop pussyfooting
around?
He is past it and resorts to invective if anyone disagrees.

My active duty began in 1942 and lasted for 25 frightening years.

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: "Phineas Pinkham"
Date: 7/7/03 4:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


" "Ed Rasimus" wrote in message

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Go to your CO and say," Sir, I hear the 344th is moving out to
the
ETO. I want to go with them. Here is my transfer request. Please sign
it". He
will immediately.

I sympathize with your point of view that if someone really wants to
get into the battle they can take the initiative, but it doesn't
happen the way you describe and hasn't since 1964 when I entered
active duty.


Ed Rasimus

It NEVER happened that way and why doesn't everyone stop pussyfooting
around?
He is past it and resorts to invective if anyone disagrees.


It happened to my pilot. And just what invective are you talking about?, The
invective seems to be all yours, not mine
..
Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer