Icing conditions

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

crap snipped...

It's been my experience that any aircraft once exposed to ice, will
naturally seek out warmer air below.

Al G

I would guess that the old rules apply if the boots have not been replaced
since the 1930s, which is highly unlikely. After the Woodlawn accident, the
FAA issued AD's for about 20 turboprops, and the AD called for inflation at
the first sign of ice.

Bob

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

As reluctant as I am to get involved in a mxmanic thread, the information
you provide is outdated. Goodyear says that it was originally based on the
DC-3, which had large tubes and low air pressure. It is now officially an
Old Wives Tale. The approved procedure today is to turn on the boots at
the
first sign of ice.

The last aircraft I was in that had boots, and the last
manual I read about use of the boots was ... you guessed it,
a DC-3. Thanks for the correction. Do you know if the OWT
about delaying use a valid one for the DC-3 in view of the
large tubes and low pressure? I don't actually recall
anything one way or the other in the systems manual, but I
wasn't paying a lot of attention to de-icing.

--
Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and
metal.

- Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.'

Jay Beckman wrote:
[snip]

So you make the call Dave. You want to feed his addiction? You want to
help him get his jollies? Be my guest. I'm sticking firmly with those who
think he needs a nice long rest in a rubber room.

I agree with all your points Jay. I just sit back and shake my head at
the Mx posts and replies but it certainly is getting harder and harder.


You see, I think MX is just playing on many pilot's urge to talk about
flying. He gets a kick out of asking questions that he "knows" the
answer to but are "gray" enough to cause controversy to get the most
replies. The more replying posts, the better. The guy gets up in the
morning and asks himself "what can I ask this sorry-ass group today to
get the most responses??" then heads to his computer.

We've all met people who like to chew your ear off with conversation.
You know, the guys that you say "bye" to 5 times before you can
actually leave because you don't want to be rude and cut them off. MX
is just playing on these same folks to generate posts for his own
somewhat dimented ego.

He only gives a **** about what we post as an answer so long as it will
creates more replies. Flames and complaints included. C'mon, do you
really think he honeslty thought Barons have ejection seats??

Unfortuantely, the sad fact is that there will always be flying
conversation-starved pilots who are willing to feed his hunger.

Marco

"Marco Leon" wrote in
ups.com:

I agree with all your points Jay. I just sit back and shake my head at
the Mx posts and replies but it certainly is getting harder and
harder.

Thus the importance of all of us banding together and NOT replying to his
posts.

Past couple of days, I have seen a reduction in Mx traffic, so this is a
good sign :-)

I know it's hard, 'specially when he directly replies to my own response to
somebody else, but I am determined not to contribute to his trolling ways.

Silent treatment against trolls is the best way to get rid of them. We as
a group can do this and get our group back.

Anybody new that I see popping in that replies to his post, I will let them
know they are dealing with a troll. Hopefully others will give them fair
warning too.

As far as lurkers go, well they certainly have a keyboard to post their own
questions..... They surely don't need Mx to ask their questions.

Questions that have been posted by Mx are not the problems.....

Allen

Here are some questions MX has asked in the recent past:

- What is the reason for not having icing protection turned on all the
time?
- Can VFR fixes be used on IFR flight plans? (How many of us know about
VFR fixes?)
- Can you switch VFR to IFR inflight, or do you have to file a full
flight plan?
- When class D overlaps with class C, which one takes precedence?
- Why doesn't the sectional chart legend show the symbol used for
wildlife refuges and national parks?
- How do you tell which side of the chain-link class E border you are
in? (how many pilots have even seen these symbols?)

Now, be honest and ask yourself if these are really trivial questions
with trivial answers. I am a CFII and I get excited when my students
ask such probing questions. I am willing to bet that majority of the
pilot population will not be able to answer the above questions.



A Lieberma wrote:
Dave wrote in
:

I "tolerated" a lot of questions from a guy about 6 months ago. He
was flying a sim... And the questions would fall into the "stupid"
category within some opinions here...

So I showed him around our Warrior, let him sit in the left seat...
(1st time in a light plane). He recognised all the instruments,
controls and functions...

I saw him at the airport 3 months later..

He had signed up for pilot training and was working on landings ( at
about 6 hrs).....

So I will take a chance on another who may become a "real" pilot
someday...if they show an interest in aviation...

Dave,

What you describe is great above. I have been there and done it myself,
and posted my experiences on a post "Why I fly" to the
rec.aviation.piloting and rec.aviation.student newsgroups.

Here is the difference between what you describe above and Mx.

Your flight simmer went to the airport with you. Your simmer got in the
plane with you. Your simmer signed up for lessons. YOUR SIMMER
APPRECIATED the time vested. The unasked question is the dumb question.

I will take a fence sitter up any chance I get so I can take away the
mystery of the magic of flight and welcome all dumb questions.

Now, let's talk a little about Mx.....

He badgers every reply.
He can't afford flying.
He says it's too dangerous.
The equipment in our planes are unreliable.
He needs to see the pilot fly before he would get in a plane with him
(How this will happen is beyond my comprehension).

His sim doesn't jive up with real world experiences, I.E human physiology
interacting with flight. He has no intention of getting in a plane. He
has no intention of learning the real world experiences, only badger the
repliers to his good questions with sim experiences that doesn't equate.
I.E leans in IMC vs getting so called dizzy sitting in front of a
computer monitor.

Again, questions raised by Mx is not the problem. Simmers posting
questions is not the problem. Arm chair pilots posting question is not
the problem

THE PROBLEM IS THE LACK OF RESPECT SHOWN BY MX for real world experiences
THAT CANNOT BE SIMULATED IN A SIM. I do make the assumption you fly a
real plane and can understand what I am trying to convey.

Why folks are putting up with this disrespect is beyond my
comprehension....

TROLLS NEED TO BE IGNORED....

Allen

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in
ups.com:

Here are some questions MX has asked in the recent past:

Do the flip side Andrew. Post some of his replies......

I bet you won't have the same raving reviews....

I don't think anybody is having a problems with the quality of the
questions. How many times does this have to be re-iterated????

IT IS his lack of respect for the replies he has gotten.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote in
. 18:

IT IS his lack of respect for the replies he has gotten.

The word gotten should be "given"

Allen

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
"Jay Beckman" wrote in
:

(OK - here comes the big controversy...)
It's the same type of hypocrisy that I believe exists among people who
complain about being called derogatory names, and then refer to each
other "jokingly" using the same bad words.

The difference?

Our Albatross flies a desk...I actually FLY.

Irrelevant to my point. If I walk around calling myself a "dirty cheap
kike", would you call me a hypocrite if I then got offended when you call
me a "dirty cheap kike"?

Is it true? Are you? In the end it doesn't matter what I think. I'm not a
part of the "user group" so that means my opinion means nothing on the
subject. Same thing applies to Mx and flying.

So thankyouverymuch but I'll refer to light GA aircraft in whatever
terms I choose and I don't give a tinkers damn if I come off sounding
high and mighty.

Yourwelcomeverymuch. You go ahead and refer to light GA aircraft in
whatever terms you want. But then don't be surprised when an outsider uses
the same language. But if that language offends you, then you shouldn't
have used it yourself.

See my point above. If you aren't experienced with the subject, you
shouldn't be casting aspersions at all.


It has nothing to do with high and mighty.


Apparently this is problem #1 for some. We pilots are being haughty and
unwilling to help someone who is trying to drink from the fountain of
knowledge. Well bull****. Have you seen the Albatross' website? He's
obviously not stupid, not ignorant and in fact, some of his photography is
pretty damn good. So I'd say he's perfectly capable of devining official
information from reliable sources. So given the established fact that he
has no desire to ever fly, why come here to ask the questions? Someone else
hit the nail on the head: He knows just which questions to ask to spark
debate. Not subjects that are cut and dried/black and white. Practically
all are on what in the sports world would be referred to as "Judgement
Calls."

Anyway, it's a big beef of mine (especially the "N word")

I assume you mean Black-on-Black use of the "N" word? Do you know what it
means when one African-American calls another by the "N" word? Having grown
up in Detroit, Michigan (making me a part of the user group, trust me), I
can give you a clue: It isn't a racial thing...

and I've said my peace. So I'll shut up about it now to prevent another MX
thread from evolving into prosperity.

Best of Luck,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

Recently, Andrew Sarangan posted:

Here are some questions MX has asked in the recent past:

- What is the reason for not having icing protection turned on all the
time?
- Can VFR fixes be used on IFR flight plans? (How many of us know
about VFR fixes?)
- Can you switch VFR to IFR inflight, or do you have to file a full
flight plan?
- When class D overlaps with class C, which one takes precedence?
- Why doesn't the sectional chart legend show the symbol used for
wildlife refuges and national parks?
- How do you tell which side of the chain-link class E border you are
in? (how many pilots have even seen these symbols?)

Now, be honest and ask yourself if these are really trivial questions
with trivial answers. I am a CFII and I get excited when my students
ask such probing questions. I am willing to bet that majority of the
pilot population will not be able to answer the above questions.

As many have said, their problem with Anthony is not about the quality of
his questions. He asks good questions at the outset that are quite
appropriate for this newsgroup. Some group participants are upset with his
rudeness and argumentative nature in consideration of his actual knowledge
and experience. Others are concerned when he posts misinformation
disguised as statements of fact (I'm in this group).

Having met pilots that are at least as rude as Anthony, I find it
difficult to be upset by that aspect of his presentation. We all have
limited knowledge, and at times post incorrect comments that can be read
as statements of fact, so I can't see a reason to single him out on this,
either. So, just as we are willing to do to others, we should do to him.

Neil

A Lieberma wrote:

"Marco Leon" wrote in
ups.com:


I agree with all your points Jay. I just sit back and shake my head at
the Mx posts and replies but it certainly is getting harder and
harder.


Thus the importance of all of us banding together and NOT replying to his
posts.

Past couple of days, I have seen a reduction in Mx traffic, so this is a
good sign :-)

I know it's hard, 'specially when he directly replies to my own response to
somebody else, but I am determined not to contribute to his trolling ways.

Silent treatment against trolls is the best way to get rid of them. We as
a group can do this and get our group back.

Anybody new that I see popping in that replies to his post, I will let them
know they are dealing with a troll. Hopefully others will give them fair
warning too.

As far as lurkers go, well they certainly have a keyboard to post their own
questions..... They surely don't need Mx to ask their questions.

Questions that have been posted by Mx are not the problems.....

Allen


Maybe Mx is a college graduate working on a Ph.D. in psychology and
studying behavior on the internet. And, he just happened to like flying
(sim or otherwise) and is using this as his research. Just a thought.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI