Skydivers vs. Gliders?

A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,
--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

People who throw themselves out of perfectly serviceable
aeroplanes at 15,000ft and then plummet almost vertically
at over 100mph for 14,000ft are an absolute menace.
If you are flying a glider or a light aircraft, you
will almost certainly not see them coming and they
have only very limited manoeuvrability to avoid you,
even if they do see you. There have been a number of
fatal collisions and very near misses between skydivers
and gliders in the UK and Europe.

One of the problems in the UK is that the Skydivers
won't talk to the gliding movement and guard their
'drop zones' like dogs in a manger, even though they
are often not being used.

If you can get them to agree to set times and to inform
pilots by radio or other means when they are about
to jump, there may not be too much of a problem. I
have flown at a site in Spain where the two sports
do liase and there didn't seem to be a problem combining
them there.

Derek Copeland

At 16:12 11 July 2006, Bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management,
wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada,
USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of
the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and
much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business
jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and
probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not
sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year).
Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring
pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing
an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,
--
bumper ZZ
'Dare to be different . . . circle in sink.'

Derek Copeland wrote:
People who throw themselves out of perfectly serviceable
aeroplanes ....

I jump pilot I know answers this quip with "well, you haven't seen the
typical jump plane". The point being that the next venue for many jump
planes is the scrap heap.

For many years, The Greater Boston Soaring Club (http://soargbsc.com)
co-existed at the Pepperell MA airport with the Pepperell Skydiving
Center (http://www.skyjump.com/)in peace. They leased the airport and we
were their tenants. At one point, when the runway needed resurfacing,
the club financed the runway work in lieu of several years rent. But, at
the end we parted company on unfriendly terms. I will only say that we
thought that their demands became increasingly unreasonable - fully
understanding that there are two sides to every story.

Jumpers want to be on the upwind side of the field for exactly the same
reasons that the glider pilots do. This will be a problem. Much depends
on what kind of glider club you have. If a large portion of your
operations are training flights there will be more conflicts than if
your club does mostly XC, natch. Every one being on the radio is a big
plus but even so, there WILL be conflicts. This can mean a jump pilot
calling a glider with a request to move downwind or a jump pilot holding
a jump until a conflict is resolved. The airport area was divided into a
pie cut into six pieces - each with a letter designator. At the start of
the day, they'd give us the letter of the pie wedge where they were
getting out and we'd stay clear - mostly. If the wind changed..... well,
you can figure it out.

If every one stays on polite terms it CAN be done. There WILL be
conflicts. There WILL be increase risk. We left for personal/political
reasons not safety. In hindsight, life is much more relaxed without the
jumpers. If your jump operation has the choice of moving elsewhere,
encourage them to take it.

Tony V.

This can be done safely and effectively provided, of course, that the
jump operations and glider pilots in the area are on the same frequency
and communicate diligently.

A jump operation coexisted with Estrella for some time but that was
long before I gave up skydiving and took my first gliding lesson there.
I never heard of any associated problems.

There is at least one airport in southern France that hosts (or did
host) major skydiving and soaring operations. There was a fatal
incident some time ago when a skydiver in freefall hit a glider,
directly over the airport.

~ted/2NO

a écrit:
This can be done safely and effectively provided, of course, that the
jump operations and glider pilots in the area are on the same frequency
and communicate diligently.

A jump operation coexisted with Estrella for some time but that was
long before I gave up skydiving and took my first gliding lesson there.
I never heard of any associated problems.

There is at least one airport in southern France that hosts (or did
host) major skydiving and soaring operations. There was a fatal
incident some time ago when a skydiver in freefall hit a glider,
directly over the airport.

~ted/2NO


I suppose you are writing about the Gap airfield. A reserved airspace
exists there for parachutists. Alas, some foreign pilots, although duly
warned in preflight briefing, penetrate it!
If you read french, look at:
http://planeur.phpnet.org/ivb//index...ic=4394&hl=gap

You can look at this too: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/indasky/03.jpg

Getting OT, but ... yes, I was referring to the field at Gap-Tallard. I
hope to return to fly gliders in the area someday. And visit that very
fine restaurant close to the aerodrome. And the pizzeria in Tallard ...

bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

Sharing the airport is not the problem. We share the Hollister airport
with a skydiving operation.

What matters is the location of the drop zone. Theirs is a good 7 miles
south of the airport and nowhere near terrain that we typically head for
when the lift is working.

Given the terrain around KMEV, I wonder where they'd like to drop. East
of the field toward the Pine Nuts? South of the field?

North and West both seem a bit more crowded.

Hopefully not near the Startbucks factory. That thermal saves my butt
when I fly there. :-)

Jeremy

bumper wrote:
A Skydiving company has approached airport management, wanting to open a
skydiving operation at Minden-Tahoe Airport, Nevada, USA. Minden, as you're
probably aware, is considered by many to be one of the true soaring Mecca,
with superb soaring conditions, beautiful scenery and much more. It also has
a mix of powered aircraft traffic including business jets, with over half
the airport operations being glider related.

There are a number of other airports in the US, and probably elsewhere, that
support both gliders and skydivers, though I'm not sure they have the same
number of operations was KMEV (60 to 70K per year). Safety, is a primary
concern, as is the potential for driving away soaring pilots.

If you have any experience, good or bad, in sharing an airport with
skydivers, please post.

all the best,

- If there is a financial aspect attached to it that will keep Minden
operational and you have no other funding options then yes, but
otherwise keep them out!
Its never safe watching parachuters crossing your final approach,
plus usually these drop zones have high amount of accidents.

Skydivers have the same right to use the airport and airspace that
glider pilots do.

Skydivers crossing runway approaches or overflying any runway below 500
feet are probably violating FARs but regardless this practice has been
prohibited at all of the 100 or so skydiving centers I've ever jumped
at. Jump operations get lots of FAA scrutiny and do not wish to
endanger their own existence.

And before anyone wags any more fingers at the "danger" of skydiving, I
highly suggest you examine the fatalities to participants ratio:
skydiving, about 30 per 100,000; soaring, about 45 per 100,000. We
should get our own house in order before we can go lecturing the
skydiving community about what is safe and what is not.

~ted/2NO

I spent the weekend at a fly in with 30 piper cubs swarming about at
Lompoc with parachute operations going on. The drop zone is about 1/4
mile from the runway inside the pattern. I was amazed at the lack of
conflict. The prevailing wind is strong and down the runway so if the
skydivers get blown downwind they will not come over the airport. The
airport has an ILS and is 10 miles from Vandenberg. I think the safety
as always boils down to good communication and mutual respect. Not
always available everywhere. I think the Hollister model is a good
model for Minden.
Rodger R
Pescadero CA