Next step(s) in purchase?

Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

So, for the last several months, I've been electronically kicking tires of
the various examples I've seen online. I've been exercising the patience
everyone here agreed I'd need (about the only thing in wide agreement!), but
now I've seen one that I'm ready to take the next step(s) on (read:
actually spend money on travel, pre-buy, etc.). I hardly know where to
begin, so I'm hoping to continue on the goodwill of the group. (Besides, I
hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better hurry up & pay
the cover charge! )

Here are the things I "think" I need to do, in what I "think" is appropriate
chronological order. Process stops at any step that results in a no-go.
Comments, changes, additions, deletions--all are welcome, please!!

In progress:
1) Gather as much info about make/model as I can & refine desired
traits--ongoing
2) Find one for sale meeting desires & contact seller, get further info,
etc.--ongoing
3) Initiate financing--started today (HEL seems best, but any contrary
opinions here?)
------------------
Next:
4) Contact AOPA buyer services--"soon"; not sure what they can/can't do for
me
5) Get specific insurance quotes--"soon"; I have a general idea from
earlier quote, I just need to update them
------------------
To follow: (here's where I'm really lost)
6) Arrange for pre-buy--ASAP, but at least a week or so (?) before
traveling
7) Travel--when ready on both ends
7a) Inspect logs
7b) Pre-buy inspection
7c) Test flight--who pays for this? any specific maneuvers, etc., to
run through?
7d) Negotiate price--I have NO idea how to do this, any hints
appreciated!
8) Arrange for escrow--ASAP; can/should I do this ahead of #7??
9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time
10) Fund escrow, close escrow, fly home!

As I say, this is my impression right now--I'm sure there's any number of
improvements that can be made. Bring 'em on!

Additional questions:
#6: Anyone w/ advice on whom to approach for the pre-buy? Airplane is in
New England region (Hartford, CT).
#9: Any advice/suggestions on where I can do this? I live in Colorado
Springs; I'm willing to travel if I must, but closer is better (read:
cheaper). Perhaps somewhere near Hartford would work well, since I may be
traveling there anyway. Note, this point really isn't tied to this specific
airplane, since it will carry to whatever plane I finally go with (unless I
change my target).

Thanks for any help!
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message
...

9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time
10) Fund escrow, close escrow, fly home!

Rather than bothering to get the five hours in advance, just take a local CFI
with you for the trip. Yes, it costs money, but you get dual use out of the
cross-country hours, a second set of eyes for your pre-buy walkaround and
paperwork check, and backup on that unfamiliar cross country flight in an
unfamiliar aircraft.

Vaughn

("Douglas Paterson" wrote)
(Besides, I hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better
hurry up & pay the cover charge! )


From reliable sources: Jay throws a hell of a Pre-OSH party at a certain Inn
(@ IOW).

.....of which I have yet to see one left-over brat, BTW!

In the N40 (@ OSH) Jay has been relegated to walking around with a beer in
his hand - greeting guests. We'd call him "The Greeter," but that one is
used by Wally-World.

So, Jay's N40 title is: "Host"
(Job description: beer - some sitting - much schmoozing - watch
departures - beer - fud - beer - schmooze - sit - watch departures -
schmooze - pictures - beer - sit - fud - beer - schmooze - snooze)

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.


Montblack
"So it's ...beer, fud, sit, fud, beer...?"
"No, no, no! You forgot schmooze. Again, from the top."

"This is harder than it looks. Let's see, ...beer, fud, sit, schmooze...?"
"Better. Again."

Doug,
Good for you!

I would double check the insurance cost and the insurance company's
checkout requirements before going further. My insurance company
increased both between my initial informal quote and when I finally
bought my bonanza. Just unlucky timing.

When I sold my citabria I simply flew the plane to an airport convenient
to both me and the seller and had a friend pick me up there. The buyer
paid with a certified check. It was only a couple of hundred miles
away so it was an easy trip. When I bought my bonanza I paid the
seller's costs to fly the plane out to me and for his return ticket back
to Utah. You may want to explore those options. I did try to find a
local CFI to fly out with me to pick up the airplane but I couldn't find
one with enough Bo time that was available for a few days. Your
insurance company may want to know that your instructor has time in the
TB20. Talk to your insurance company about that. If something bad
happens and the insurance company determines that the CFI wasn't
qualified it could get ugly. I also tried to get a Bo check out prior
to getting the airplane but it's tough to find places that rent high
performance airplanes.

You really need an independent third party to look at the airplane,
particularly since it's complex and relatively uncommon. Before I
bought the Bo I hired an experienced mechanic recommended by the
american bonanza society to fly out and inspect the airplane. He helped
me immensely but even he missed a few items. Maybe the folks at the
Socota.org website can recommend someone that is a TB20 expert.

Make sure that the price you're paying is realistic. If it's too cheap
there's probably a bad reason for it - not always but be wary.

Get the AOPA title search done early - they can turn it around in a day
if the records are available. Unfortunately, for many different
reasons, the records may not be available. This happened to me on one
airplane I was considering so don't wait until the last minute.

I think I wrote about this when you first posted about buying - try to
find an airplane with the avionics you want already installed. The
return on avionics installations is peanuts. I was told that when I
first started shopping for a complex airplane and I found that it is true.

Lastly - don't be afraid to spend money upfront on title searches,
inspections, etc. In the long run, it's the best money you'll spend on
the airplane.

Dave
M35

Douglas Paterson wrote:
Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

So, for the last several months, I've been electronically kicking tires of
the various examples I've seen online. I've been exercising the patience
everyone here agreed I'd need (about the only thing in wide agreement!), but
now I've seen one that I'm ready to take the next step(s) on (read:
actually spend money on travel, pre-buy, etc.). I hardly know where to
begin, so I'm hoping to continue on the goodwill of the group. (Besides, I
hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better hurry up & pay
the cover charge! )

Here are the things I "think" I need to do, in what I "think" is appropriate
chronological order. Process stops at any step that results in a no-go.
Comments, changes, additions, deletions--all are welcome, please!!

I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

Which we all expect to see at the HOPS N40 Party in OSH!

:-)

2) Find one for sale meeting desires & contact seller, get further info,
etc.--ongoing

You've picked a rare bird, so your choices are going to be limited.
Luckily, the market is in the dumpster, so whatever is available
should be cheap!

3) Initiate financing--started today (HEL seems best, but any contrary
opinions here?)

Contact (I'm not kidding) First National Bank of Oskaloosa, in little
Oskaloosa, Iowa. This bank is run by pilots, and they specialize in
aircraft financing. Ask for Mary Anderson. Tell her I sent ya her
way. Contact info is he
https://www.fnbmidwest.com/
(Click on aircraft financing...)

I've had two loans from them, and never set foot in the bank. You do
not have to live anywhere near Iowa to take advantage of their
hospitality.

7d) Negotiate price--I have NO idea how to do this, any hints
appreciated!

The market is dead. Use VRef tp determine approximate value, but take
it with a grain of salt. If the asking price is at VRef levels, I'd
offer 20% under any advertised price, to start. A lot of guys have
been trying to sell their planes for many months, and may be ready to
accept ANY offer.

9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time

Not necessary, and very difficult given the type of aircraft you're
seeking.

10) Fund escrow, close escrow, fly home!

Now THAT is the fun part!

#6: Anyone w/ advice on whom to approach for the pre-buy? Airplane is in
New England region (Hartford, CT).

This will tell the tale. If the seller isn't flexible on where the
pre-buy is done, run, do not walk from the table.

I know a lot of guys don't want strange mechanics ripping into their
plane, so let the seller help you select the shop. Get him to
recommend three shops nearby, under the presumption that he can't
bribe EVERYONE to lie about his plane. Pick one, and BE THERE WHEN IT
HAPPENS, if at all possible.

A remote, un-witnessed pre-buy inspection is just asking for trouble,
IMHO.

#9: Any advice/suggestions on where I can do this? I live in Colorado
Springs; I'm willing to travel if I must, but closer is better (read:
cheaper). Perhaps somewhere near Hartford would work well, since I may be
traveling there anyway. Note, this point really isn't tied to this specific
airplane, since it will carry to whatever plane I finally go with (unless I
change my target).

If you were buying a Skylane, you would have no troubles. Finding a
Socata is going to make it necessary for you to fly -- perhaps quickly
-- anywhere in the country. (Data point: We fly everywhere, a lot,
and I don't recall ever SEEING one anywhere, outside of Oshkosh.)

Good luck! Keep us posted.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Douglas Paterson wrote:
Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

So, for the last several months, I've been electronically kicking tires of
the various examples I've seen online. I've been exercising the patience
everyone here agreed I'd need (about the only thing in wide agreement!), but
now I've seen one that I'm ready to take the next step(s) on (read:
actually spend money on travel, pre-buy, etc.). I hardly know where to
begin, so I'm hoping to continue on the goodwill of the group. (Besides, I
hear Jay is throwing a hell of a party at OSH, so I'd better hurry up & pay
the cover charge! )

Here are the things I "think" I need to do, in what I "think" is appropriate
chronological order. Process stops at any step that results in a no-go.
Comments, changes, additions, deletions--all are welcome, please!!

I didn't see any mention of where you're
gonna keep your new plane. In some places,
there's no hangers and no tie-downs available
and it might pay to start shopping early.

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

Rather than bothering to get the five hours in advance, just take a local
CFI with you for the trip. Yes, it costs money, but you get dual use out
of the cross-country hours, a second set of eyes for your pre-buy
walkaround and paperwork check, and backup on that unfamiliar cross
country flight in an unfamiliar aircraft.



I'd considered that--and, it's still a fall-back option--but part of my
written-in-smoke plan is to build a mini-vacation around the trip home,
which would at best make it VERY expensive, but more likely wouldn't work
for someone else's schedule (let alone inclination to put up with not only
me, but my friends & family!).

On the pre-buy walkaround, paperwork, etc.: super point. Adding that to my
calculations....

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"dave" wrote in message
. ..

I would double check the insurance cost and the insurance company's
checkout requirements before going further. My insurance company
increased both between my initial informal quote and when I finally bought
my bonanza. Just unlucky timing.


Excellent point. I'm sure I'm in for any number of financial "surprises"
like that, but forewarned is forearmed as they say. I will do so!

When I sold my citabria I simply flew the plane to an airport convenient
to both me and the seller and had a friend pick me up there. The buyer
paid with a certified check. It was only a couple of hundred miles away
so it was an easy trip. When I bought my bonanza I paid the seller's
costs to fly the plane out to me and for his return ticket back to Utah.
You may want to explore those options. I did try to find a local CFI to
fly out with me to pick up the airplane but I couldn't find one with
enough Bo time that was available for a few days. Your insurance company
may want to know that your instructor has time in the TB20. Talk to your
insurance company about that. If something bad happens and the insurance
company determines that the CFI wasn't qualified it could get ugly. I
also tried to get a Bo check out prior to getting the airplane but it's
tough to find places that rent high performance airplanes.

Copy all. All are valid considerations--but, at the end of the day, I've
got to say I'm really looking forward to flying MY airplane back to MY
location. You know??

I'll add the CFI rqmts question to the insurance discussion, thanks. Via
the Socata group, I've found several locations that rent Trinidads (with,
presumably, CFIs available for checkout purposes)--rather than spend the
money to get someone to join me on the trip or to fly MY plane to me, I'd
sooner pay to fly myself to one of these locations and get the hours. One
of them is in White Plains, NY, which is close to both my prospect and my
family.... We'll see.

[other good info snipped]

Thanks, Dave--precisely the sort of info I'm looking for!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

Which we all expect to see at the HOPS N40 Party in OSH!


Love to! Even if I'm a bona fide owner by then, it may be tough this
year--I'm already committed to Sturgis, and the close timing makes it
tricky, both work and $$-wise.


You've picked a rare bird, so your choices are going to be limited.
Luckily, the market is in the dumpster, so whatever is available
should be cheap!

Relative term, of course--but, I've seen asking prices dropping over the
year or so I've been looking, even on specific airplanes that aren't moving.
Speaking from a prospective buyer's position--I sure hope you're right!


3) Initiate financing--started today (HEL seems best, but any contrary
opinions here?)

Contact (I'm not kidding) First National Bank of Oskaloosa, in little
Oskaloosa, Iowa. This bank is run by pilots, and they specialize in
aircraft financing. Ask for Mary Anderson. Tell her I sent ya her
way. Contact info is he
https://www.fnbmidwest.com/
(Click on aircraft financing...)


Will do--thanks for the tip!

[other good stuff snipped]

Thanks, Jay. Lot's of good info, exactly what I need.

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .

I didn't see any mention of where you're
gonna keep your new plane. In some places,
there's no hangers and no tie-downs available
and it might pay to start shopping early.

Tie-downs are no problem. Hangars are tight, but can be had. I'm waiting
to pull the trigger on a lease until I'm at least traveling to see a plane.
I almost signed one a year ago, and am glad I didn't (leaving nearly $3,500
in my pocket). If the bird has to sit outside for a couple of months (the
max turnover I've seen around here), I'll live.

Thanks for the thought!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)