The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

Jose wrote:

An ostrich after all, with all it's feathers, CAN'T FLY.


Oh, come now. You need to apply mathematical and scientific reasoning.
It's already been experimentally established that it takes two pounds
of feathers to lift ten pounds of Canada goose. An ostrich weighs much
more than ten pounds, but does not have a commensurate amount of
feathers. Feathers are not magical, they operate by strict scientific
principles and an insufficient amount of feathers won't even make a
fruit fly.

If you want to convince me that it's not feathers, do some experiments.
Attach a pound of feathers for every five pounds of ostrich, and toss
the ostriches out of an airplane. Do this a statistically significant
number of times, and then we'll talk turkey.

Jose
OhMyGod! Shades of WKRP in Cincinnati!

I just got my new Chevy Blazer, and returned to the dealer the next day,
complaining that I couldn't figure out how the radio worked.

The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated. "Watch this!" he
said, "Nelson! The radio replied, "Ricky or Willie?" "Willie!"...and On The
Road Again came from the speakers.

I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say, Beethoven!"
I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said, "Beatles!" I'd get one of
their awesome songs.

One day, a couple ran a red light and nearly creamed my new car, but I
swerved in time to avoid them. "Chicken**** Assholes!" I yelled.

The French National Anthem began to play, sung by Jane Fonda and Michael
Moore, backed up by John Kerry on guitar, Al Gore on drums and Bill Clinton
on sax....

Man!, I LOVE this car!

Richard

There is a *net* downward momentum of air.

I have several aerodynamics books that say differently.

Otherwise there is no lift.

If there is a pressure difference between the top and bottom, you will
have lift. Your airfoil is blisssfully unaware of the air with which
it has no contact.

No. wingtip vortices are caused by downwash. Infinite wings don't
have wingtip vortices because they don't have ends, not because they
don't have downwash.

Again, I have many aerodynamics books that say differently. Even
Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators.


On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:22:36 -0600, "Highflyer" wrote:

Disagree. There is a *net* downward momentum of air. Otherwise there is no
lift. However the downward momentum for any finite section of the infinite
wing is infinitesimal. Note, however, that even though in Calculus 100 we
assume that an infinitesimal is approximately equal to zero and can be
ignored, it is only approximately to zero and only very very near zero.

While zero times any number is still zero, almost zero times infinity is
NOT zero. Ergo, the downwash is not zero either.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:08:27 GMT, Richard Lamb
wrote:

Hey, HF, Dan, Both of youse guys, listen up!

Youse guys drag doze two loons back in here, I'm agonna
tink I'm Dick Cheney and da two of youse look like Quayle to me!

Got it?

Tony Soprano

Youse mean like dis

http://www.toonedin.com/cheney.html

Obviously it IS impossible. After all, they did it with three of them
and they ALL CRASHED!!!!

If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it sounds like a
duck...

AL


"Immanuel Goldstein" wrote in message
...
On 2/22/2006 8:41 AM, Dan Luke enscribed:
Loon.


A wonderful example of avian evolution. Your proof?


--
Closely Monitored,

Immanuel Goldstein

"The history of the present [US Government] is a history of repeated
injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of
an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be
submitted to a candid world."
- Declaration of Independence

The Pentagon Strike
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

The Demolition of WTC Building 7
http://911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/index.html#building7

"It's just a god-damned piece of paper!"
- Bush on the U.S. Constitution,
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp12142005.html

"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act."
- Orwell

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it
is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to
provide new Guards for their future security."
- Declaration of Independence

So, after the test flight, how do you get down from your
mechanical goose?

Surely everybody knows you don't get down off a goose, you
get down off a
duck (eider for preference).

Eddie Bauer uses goose down. Jack Bauer never ever sleeps
and saves the world every 24 hours. Aunt Bea learned how to
fly and soloed on Andy Griffith [a really good episode], but
she usually cooked birds.
I heard that fast airplanes go so fast because the aluminum
is afraid of noise, the more noise the harder the aluminum
tries to get away.

Penguins have feathers and can't fly because the air is too
thin, but they can fly in water. Humans don't have feathers
and can't even fly in water. I did see a video of a guy who
jumped out of a helicopter wearing a batsuit and flew down a
mountain
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...06-batsuit.wmv
and it looked very cold. Maybe cold makes people fly?


How do you get down from a horse? Some people fall off.


"Richard Lamb" wrote in message
nk.net...
| Jose wrote:
|
| An ostrich after all, with all it's feathers, CAN'T
FLY.
|
|
| Oh, come now. You need to apply mathematical and
scientific reasoning.
| It's already been experimentally established that it
takes two pounds
| of feathers to lift ten pounds of Canada goose. An
ostrich weighs much
| more than ten pounds, but does not have a commensurate
amount of
| feathers. Feathers are not magical, they operate by
strict scientific
| principles and an insufficient amount of feathers won't
even make a
| fruit fly.
|
| If you want to convince me that it's not feathers, do
some experiments.
| Attach a pound of feathers for every five pounds of
ostrich, and toss
| the ostriches out of an airplane. Do this a
statistically significant
| number of times, and then we'll talk turkey.
|
| Jose
| OhMyGod! Shades of WKRP in Cincinnati!

Shades of WKRP

I have lurked here for years, waiting for some words of wisdom I could
cling to, at last a discussion I understand .....sigh.....

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:

In article . net, Richard Lamb
says...


According to Shafer "Lift is caused by Lift Demons.
These little, invisible demons hold on to the leading and trailing edges of
the aircraft and lift it into the air by flapping their wings (so, in a
reductionist sense, lift is actually caused by feathers).


First honest thing I've read in this thread. Lift is caused by feathers is a
known scientific fact and I can prove it .

Take a 10 # Canada goose and it will fly very nicely. Now pluck all the feathers
and then watch this now naked Goose do high speed taxi's with it's little naked
wings flapping wildly. The Goose sans feathers cannot fly so the answer is
obvious to those who take the time the think about it. The average goose has 2
pounds of feathers so therefore for every pound of feathers you can lift 5# of
goose. Therefore I propose that we build a man carrying mechanical Goose to
prove this phenomena.

We can start small with say an Ultralight version with a gross weight of 600#.
We would need only about 120 # of feathers. We will need to fund this all
important project so I'll be accepting donations...cash only .

Later well do a project on how speed is caused ,you'll be amazed how it works.A
small clue is electromagnetic plasma pulses rectified by an alum pyramid shaped
hat. Don't forget to send money ...

Lift Faries?? Pure bunk!! It's feathers my boy feathers!!

Count Clipper


Well, Chuck, I have to admit, you almost had me won over.

At near 10 stone, I'd need to collect only 40 pounds of (pretty!) feathers and
I'd be able to fly just like Peter Pan. Finally, a life long dream realized!

Researching through my technical library, I came across an ancient documentary
film - "Those Magnificent Men And Their Flying Machines".
In the opening sequence, Red Skelton attempted feathered flight.

Fortunately, for the squeamish souls among us, this tragedy was filmed in a
very long shot. But that shot DOES allow us to measure the L/D directly from
the filmed evidence.

The result was a dismal .01:1 glide ratio...

Well, back to the drawing board...

Richard

("ChuckSlusarczyk" somehow found the keyboard)
I can for see a time when men with a huge fire coming out from behind
their butts could go as far as the moon in vertical flight.


"Behind their butts" is similar to "talking behind someone's back" ...which
is essentially IN FRONT OF THEM - if you get right down to it.

Therefore "a huge fire coming out from behind their butts" is really ...OMG!

Um, this has already proven not to work ...25 years ago at college - and
only when I pee'd.


Montblack
Not the hook! Not the hook!

"Give her some marmalade...give her some toast"
- Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show