Mechanics of Elevator Trim. In Detail.

On Jun 9, 10:28*pm, Tina wrote:
Lost and Found

Found:

To the village that has lost its idiot: we've found him.

Ya, 'I'm building an airplane and want to know who the trim works.
Also how do I weld it?'

-Robert

Hi,

In article ,
Le Chaud wrote:
That's interesting. How do you see the trim tab fromm the cockpit?

Umm...you move your head?

On a PA28, the trim tab runs most of the length of the moving tailplane.
Pull the yoke back with your left hand, look over your left shoulder and
move the trim wheel through the extent of its travel with you right hand and
watch what happens.

I've been in Tomahawk and DA-20. I did preflight on DA-20, but didn't
test trim.

Then you didn't do the pre-flight correctly.

Andy

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Le Chaud Lapin wrote in
news:a685e391-2f45-4a75-
:

On Jun 9, 12:34 am, Tina wrote:
Le Chaud Lapin wrote wrote:



Spent 30 minutes at pool yesterday discussing with professional
metalworkers best way to weld a complex joint for important
element of prototype of what would be considered a wing.

Such things take time, and still, I do not know if it will work.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

to which I would point out that in 2008 most engineers when
considering structures operating at general aviation speeds and
stresses would be thinking of composites and molding complex
shapes, not in terms of bending metal and welded joining.

This presumes that you know what the welds are for, which would be
difficult, as the welders themselves do not even know at this point.



And neither do you.


Bertie

And obviously, neither do you.


So enlighten us, fjukktard.


Little slow over on RAP this morning, Mr. Needsalife?


Nope.

Bertie

Le Chaud Lapin wrote in news:6b0f0604-da90-4433-
:

On Jun 9, 1:06*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 9, 9:34*am, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

MSFS was the means by which I discovered the mechanism.

If I had learned in actual aircraft, the question still would have
been relevant.

I disagree. I've never had a student have trouble understanding trim.
I think this is just something that is confusing for the sim guys. As
such it is more approporiate for a sim group, not a pilot's group.

I never had trouble undestanding it.

Yes, you have and stil do.


Bertie

Le Chaud Lapin wrote in news:8675d961-0cdf-49a3-
:

On Jun 9, 10:48*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Jun 9, 8:18*pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

Both these explanations are true, but one of them eliminates the need
for $30 product (or $30,000 aircraft) to know what is going on.

I find that its pretty difficult to teach students to fly without the
aircraft.

That brings us full-circle to a theme that was mildly explored in
another post - what utility, if any, is there in using a simulator to
learn things that do not require actual flying.

So here the question would be whether it is possible to understand how
a trim tab works without ever having flown an aircraft.

I have flown in DA-20 and Tomahawk, but I do not think actual flight
would have been necessary to understand how trim tab works.

Which is an admission that you do not know how trim works.


Bertie

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:a70d185c-acc8-458f-8551-
:

On Jun 8, 8:54*pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

Spent 30 minutes at pool yesterday discussing with professional
metalworkers best way to weld a complex joint for important element of
prototype of what would be considered a wing.

When you go to look for commerical rated pilots to do the test flight
please cross my name off the list.

Hell, I don;t even want to be in the same hemispehre.


Bertie

Some students want the first approach, some may want the second - it's
probably 95% to 5%. If you assume they all want the more detailed
explanation for everything, you will have frustrated students who either
think that flying is too complicated for them to learn, or who quit because
they are bored.

When I took driver's ed in high school they didn't explain the inner
workings of a carburetor, nor did they need to in order for me to be able to
learn how to drive. Knowing how a carburetor works and having the ability
to tear one down and put it back together again does not make me a better
driver.

You want to know every detail - fine. You just need to find an instructor
who is willing and able to do that for you. As you know, not all of them
are nor do they need to be in order to be able to teach you to fly and fly
well. I suspect you dispute that fact, but history has already proven you
wrong.



"Le Chaud Lapin" wrote

It is the
instructor's choice to determine how deep s/he should delve into the
mechanics of flight.

One instructor might say, "Move trim wheel up or down to relieve
pressure on yoke."

Another might say, "Trim wheel is connected to a trim tab on elevator,
often located on one side of elevator only, and air moving across
elevator results in aerodynamic force vector on tab that acts on
elevator to position elevator so that point of equilibrium is reached,
and such force being sufficient that you no longer need the yoke to
position the elevator. As you can imagine, speed and orientation of
aircraft will have some effect on force...and therefore position of
elevator. Also, if only one tab, force applies asymetrically to
aircraft...etc."

In article ,
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

So here the question would be whether it is possible to understand how
a trim tab works without ever having flown an aircraft.

I have flown in DA-20 and Tomahawk, but I do not think actual flight
would have been necessary to understand how trim tab works.

Knowing how a trim tab works isn't necessary for flying. The pilot
needs to know is how to use trim.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Jun 10, 5:14*am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,
*Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

So here the question would be whether it is possible to understand how
a trim tab works without ever having flown an aircraft.

I have flown in DA-20 and Tomahawk, but I do not think actual flight
would have been necessary to understand how trim tab works.

Knowing how a trim tab works isn't necessary for flying. *The pilot
needs to know is how to use trim.

It is not necessary to know how many things in aircraft work to be
able to fly, but knowing how they work doesn't hurt.

Otherwise companies like Jeppensen, FAA, etc, would not go through
trouble of making all those pretty diagrams (and exams to go with).

-Le Chaud Lapin-

On Jun 10, 5:04*am, "BDS" wrote:
Some students want the first approach, some may want the second - it's
probably 95% to 5%. *If you assume they all want the more detailed
explanation for everything, you will have frustrated students who either
think that flying is too complicated for them to learn, or who quit because
they are bored.

There were two extreme examples in my ground school (but not in my
class). One had failed written once already, and they other said one
day, "Forget learning...if you want to pass the exam, this is best
tool you can use: gave me link to web site. It has most of the
questions in easy-to-memorize format." I asked them why not just
learn what they need to know, at least enough to get a 70...and they
both frowned as if I has asked them to learn to change diapers.

When I took driver's ed in high school they didn't explain the inner
workings of a carburetor, nor did they need to in order for me to be able to
learn how to drive. *Knowing how a carburetor works and having the ability
to tear one down and put it back together again does not make me a better
driver.

True. I wouldn't expect explanation of GPS in ground school, or
Pascal's principle, etc, but which many situations like this, it
doesn't hurt to know.

You want to know every detail - fine. *You just need to find an instructor
who is willing and able to do that for you. *As you know, not all of them
are nor do they need to be in order to be able to teach you to fly and fly
well. *I suspect you dispute that fact, but history has already proven you
wrong.

No, I do not dispute this. I have learned that flying is like many
other things. It is very possible to get by using mostly manipulation
of that which is presented to you.

-Le Chaud Lapin-