How much does a CFI make?

I've noticed that no one is quoting an "Annual" amount. Sure they charge
$25-$40 per hour but what does their Form 1040 say?

When I was doing full time CFI-ing, I think the best year I had was about 14K.
My best year working as a pilot was significantly better than that, but not
enough. So, as of May of this year I gave up flying and now am partner in a
small business. The money is tight, but the company is growing and by this time
next year I'll be in a good spot and be able to fly for fun on my terms.


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

In article ,
"gatt" wrote:

I guess this begs the question, how in hell do they pay their bills?

I lived with my parents for the two years that I was instructing.
Others I knew were married and their wives who also had an income.

How long do they have to do that in order to start making decent money?

It took me two years. But that was 1998. These days, I'd say it will
take twice that, if not longer.

--
Larry Fransson
Aviation software for Mac OS X!
http://www.subcritical.com

In article ,
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote:

She is currently
doing part 135, right seat flying for free, to build hours...

Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

--
Larry Fransson
Aviation software for Mac OS X!
http://www.subcritical.com

Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.




-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

"Ditch" wrote in message
...
Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.

Shot? Isn't that a little extreme?

I fail to see the difference between what she's doing, and what every other
inexperienced commercial pilot does, except in degree. Fact is, EVERY pilot
trying to get into the big cushy airline job puts up with all sorts of
"devaluing" situations, whether that's a low income, ****ty hours, no choice
about relocation, or cleaning the dog poop off of some corporate customer's
shoes.

I've never heard of any person getting into commercial aviation for any
reason other than that they love to fly. People like that, they are
inclined to do crazy things just to get into a cockpit, including flying for
nothing except the hours.

So, what's the difference if one person decides that they are willing to go
all the way down to zero pay to win the job? You can argue till the cows
come home that no one ought to do that, but look around you: even those
pilots who are getting paid aren't getting paid what they ought to be paid,
given how much training and hassles they've been through to get where they
are.

Any time someone agrees to fly an airplane for less than another pilot is
willing to, they "put a working pilot out of a job". But at the same time,
one working pilot gets the job. Pilots get paid low wages because most of
them *would* fly for no pay, push come to shove. Just happens one person
actually wound up doing that.

Pete

"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:newsgroups-

I guess this begs the question, how in hell do they pay their bills?

I lived with my parents for the two years that I was instructing.
Others I knew were married and their wives who also had an income.

How long do they have to do that in order to start making decent money?

Thanks for the information, Larry. Currently I'm starting the
IFR/ME/Commercial/CFI/CFII path and taking Cisco and Novell certification
courses (fallback) concurrently. Already have my private and a four-year
degree.

What torques me is that every career-oriented site talks about how much
money you make as an airline captain. I don't think I'd even -want- to do
that, but there isn't much info out there about other non-ATP flying jobs.

I did a P-38 video shoot with Jeff Ethell right before he died. Now, that
guy had the coolest flying job this side of the Collins Foundation pilots.

-c

In article ,
"gatt" wrote:

What torques me is that every career-oriented site talks about how much
money you make as an airline captain. I don't think I'd even -want- to do
that, but there isn't much info out there about other non-ATP flying jobs.

What's even better is that those big salary numbers are going to start
shrinking very soon. They already have, actually. It was well
publicized that United pilots took a major pay cut. Another major
airline recently asked its pilots for a 23% pay cut across the board
along with a few other things. That was rejected out of hand, of
course, but that's the direction things are going. If Richard Branson's
proposed discount airline gets off the ground, it certainly won't get
any better.

I'd also like to know where Kit Darby (Air, Inc. - aka www.jet-jobs.com)
is getting his information. He's putting ads out there saying that
hundreds of airlines are looking to hire 7000+ pilots in 2003. I'm not
sure I see that, but whatever.

There are plenty of non-airline jobs out there. You just have to get to
know people and keep your ears open. That's how I got my current job,
and I have a line on another that might be an interesting move up. A
lot of those jobs are being held by out of work airline pilots, though.
Our two most recent hires were furloughed by United and American.
They'll be with us for at least two if not three years.

--
Larry Fransson
Aviation software for Mac OS X!
http://www.subcritical.com

"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
...

I'd also like to know where Kit Darby (Air, Inc. - aka www.jet-jobs.com)
is getting his information.

Probably the same place that Monster.com gets theirs. :~)

(According to a WSJ report about 18 months ago, only about 1.1% of jobs are
filled through Monster.com; other are far less. Many jobs are recycled
weekly for over a year and resumes end up in the hands of spammers).

He's putting ads out there saying that
hundreds of airlines are looking to hire 7000+ pilots in 2003. I'm not
sure I see that, but whatever.

Sounds like Darby is a "Legend In His Own Mind".

Tom

If I own a corporate plane I want the most qualified person flying for me I can
find. One reason I don't ride on buses. Drivers are usually a $7 per hour
person. I won't trust my life to that person. I'd never put my child on a
school bus, either.


Trip

In article ,
says...

"Ditch" wrote in message
...
Argh. This always gets me. It's one thing to pay for training. It's
another thing entirely to work for free. To do that is to completely
devalue your skills.

That, and it puts a working pilot out of a job. She should be shot.

Shot? Isn't that a little extreme?

I fail to see the difference between what she's doing, and what every other
inexperienced commercial pilot does, except in degree. Fact is, EVERY pilot
trying to get into the big cushy airline job puts up with all sorts of
"devaluing" situations, whether that's a low income, ****ty hours, no choice
about relocation, or cleaning the dog poop off of some corporate customer's
shoes.

I've never heard of any person getting into commercial aviation for any
reason other than that they love to fly. People like that, they are
inclined to do crazy things just to get into a cockpit, including flying for
nothing except the hours.

So, what's the difference if one person decides that they are willing to go
all the way down to zero pay to win the job? You can argue till the cows
come home that no one ought to do that, but look around you: even those
pilots who are getting paid aren't getting paid what they ought to be paid,
given how much training and hassles they've been through to get where they
are.

Any time someone agrees to fly an airplane for less than another pilot is
willing to, they "put a working pilot out of a job". But at the same time,
one working pilot gets the job. Pilots get paid low wages because most of
them *would* fly for no pay, push come to shove. Just happens one person
actually wound up doing that.

Pete

"Tom S." wrote in message ...
"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
...

I'd also like to know where Kit Darby (Air, Inc. - aka www.jet-jobs.com)
is getting his information.

Probably the same place that Monster.com gets theirs. :~)

(According to a WSJ report about 18 months ago, only about 1.1% of jobs are
filled through Monster.com; other are far less. Many jobs are recycled
weekly for over a year and resumes end up in the hands of spammers).

He's putting ads out there saying that
hundreds of airlines are looking to hire 7000+ pilots in 2003. I'm not
sure I see that, but whatever.

Sounds like Darby is a "Legend In His Own Mind".

Tom


Sorry to get off topic, but this is VERY true about Monster. I know
for a fact that many employers use Monster to advertise a job when
they know they will never fill that positon. The reason (again this
is first hand info) is they have someone on the inside of the company
applying for the position but to satisify some legal rule they must
offer it to "outsiders" first.

A more comon reason the company i work for uses Monster is to get a
green card for non-american. In order for them to get a green card
and work in the US, they have to prove that they are not taking a job
away from a qualified american worker. So they advertise the job on
Monster with an add reading somthing like, "...needing 10 years
programming experience in c, c++, Basic, Fortran, Cobal, Pascal with 5
years project management experience while working with some no named
programming language...". Basicially, whenever you read a job add that
makes you say "Who would EVER have that combination of experience",
it's a job they are trying to justify to give to someone they already
have hired.

Again, sorry to get off topic.. Oh and yes, Monster is a place to get
good e-mail addresses for SPAM!