Best bet in a used IFR GPS?

C Kingsbury wrote:
: On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a switch
: and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of the
: GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that need
: to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

: Why does the M3 not require an annunciator, just out of curiosity?

The M3 does require an annunciator, which (in my case) is built into the
Mid-Continent CDI. It doesn't require external switches or a resolver in the
CDI (which the 155Xl, 300Xl, 89B, GX50, etc require). Apologies if I
mislead you.
Are you in New England?
--
Aaron Coolidge

On 8 Oct 2004 20:58:55 -0700, (Doug)
wrote:

You will probably never have trouble getting King updates.
There are TONS of KLN89's out there. Quite a few 90's also.
Garmin will probably continue to support the 155 as they are going
great guns and will support all their products as they have the money
and protect their reputation.

Not sure if that's entirely true. Another way to put it is that
Garmin will support their product as long as they can turn a profit
that is acceptable to the fat cats on top. How many of the portable
units, you know, the ones that put them on the map, will they no
longer support with either upgrades or repair service?

Worst thing that could have happened was that they were allowed to buy
the competition.

Yes, based at BED, tower ramp.

"Aaron Coolidge" wrote in message
...
C Kingsbury wrote:
: On any of those units except the M3, you're going to have to buy a
switch
: and annunciator (and perhaps a CDI). This will run you $1200 on top of
the
: GPS. The install will be quite lengthy, as there are many wires that
need
: to be run between the GPS, switch, annunciator, and CDI.

: Why does the M3 not require an annunciator, just out of curiosity?

The M3 does require an annunciator, which (in my case) is built into the
Mid-Continent CDI. It doesn't require external switches or a resolver in
the
CDI (which the 155Xl, 300Xl, 89B, GX50, etc require). Apologies if I
mislead you.
Are you in New England?
--
Aaron Coolidge

"Al Marzo" wrote in message
...
On 8 Oct 2004 20:58:55 -0700, (Doug)
wrote:

Not sure if that's entirely true. Another way to put it is that
Garmin will support their product as long as they can turn a profit
that is acceptable to the fat cats on top. How many of the portable

I actually like the Apollo GX units best out of all of these, but the
support factor really worries me. Though Jeppesen has every incentive to
keep selling database updates, Garmin also has plenty of incentives to make
supporting them a low priority. Likewise the Garmin first-gen boxes. I can
imagine them at some point saying, we won't support this anymore, but we'll
give you $500 off a new GNS-XXX or a year of free database updates if you
trade it in.

Garmin doesn't really have to compete too much right now. They've lapped
King in terms of panel-mount GPS and even nailed Avidyne to the wall on
glass panels. After all, while the G-1000 is an all-garmin product, the
Entegra always seems to come with Garmin radios. So they don't even need to
buy that one out like they did Apollo.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
link.net...

"Al Marzo" wrote in message
...
On 8 Oct 2004 20:58:55 -0700, (Doug)
wrote:

Not sure if that's entirely true. Another way to put it is that
Garmin will support their product as long as they can turn a profit
that is acceptable to the fat cats on top. How many of the portable

I actually like the Apollo GX units best out of all of these, but the
support factor really worries me. Though Jeppesen has every incentive to
keep selling database updates, Garmin also has plenty of incentives to
make
supporting them a low priority. Likewise the Garmin first-gen boxes. I can
imagine them at some point saying, we won't support this anymore, but
we'll
give you $500 off a new GNS-XXX or a year of free database updates if you
trade it in.

Garmin doesn't really have to compete too much right now. They've lapped
King in terms of panel-mount GPS and even nailed Avidyne to the wall on
glass panels. After all, while the G-1000 is an all-garmin product, the
Entegra always seems to come with Garmin radios. So they don't even need
to
buy that one out like they did Apollo.

-cwk.

I do have experience with Jeppesen support and it seems very good. I have a
Trimble (remember them) TLN-2000 panel mount combo GPS/Loran. Think I bought
it in 1994 and still can get data base cards from Jeppesen even though
Trimble has gotten out of the general aviation market (liability perhaps?).
I haven't gotten an replacement GPS yet because it would require from the
ground up installation. None of the existing interfaces (antennas,
autopilot, trays, etc) could be reused. Have Garmin 196 for mapping and non
GPS instrument install for instrument flight.

All that being said I don't think I could get a decent IFR certified GPS
installed and interfaced to my autopilot (STEC 50) for less than 10K.
Probably would be more.
Howard C182P

Howard


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"Howard Nelson" wrote in message
...

I do have experience with Jeppesen support and it seems very good. I have
a

That's my point- The way Jeppesen sees it, they make (roughly) the same
money selling you an update for a first-generation steam-powered GPS as they
do a G-1000. Discontinuing support for a particular unit would in most cases
cost more than it saves. But what happens if the box needs repair? Are there
3rd-party shops that can fix this stuff, or do you rely on the mfr. giving a
crap? King I'd feel comfortable relying on but Garmin, nope.

All that being said I don't think I could get a decent IFR certified GPS
installed and interfaced to my autopilot (STEC 50) for less than 10K.
Probably would be more.

I wish I had an autopilot that needed interfacing to. Heck, I wish I had an
autopilot period. In any case that adds significantly to install cost. One
of the flight schools on my field has been spending about 6k each putting
IFR GPSs in all their Warriors and Skyhawks over the past couple years.

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:
: Yes, based at BED, tower ramp.

You mght want to check with Ernie Carrol at Integrity Air Services over at
WST. (401-348-0018). He's very good, and very reasonable. He's also very
busy because of that! Ask him what he recommends. He's the shop that did
my install.
PS, my GPS was interfaced with my autopilot as well for that price I mentioned
before.

PPS, if you'd like to see my GPS install drop me a line and we'll work
something out - I'm based at 1B9.
--
Aaron Coolidge

Yes. And the 300XL is same size as 155XL and saves additional panel
space/weight of that old comm you can remove.

Nathan Young wrote in message . ..
Garmin 300XL might be another one to put on the list, and you would
gain a COM radio too. Ebay has them for $2500.00
..............

What is wrong with the 89/B? I had the same problem that Colin is
writing about. I have a '65 C-172 and it came with a VFR GPS. It had an
non functioning ADF and no DME. Rather that sink money into that I
purchased a reconditioned 89/B. It is not a 430, but it works pretty
nice once you get to know it beyond Direct To. Yes, you need to have
additional equipment installed, but no big deal. I think I got away less
that $4500 complete. I get updates quite painless with the King
Dataloader. I would like to remove the card to reprogram, but I have to
take the laptop to the plane. I am done in about 15 minutes and I get to
see the plane. You can get a set up to take the 89/B to the computer,
but I didn't like the idea of continually removing the GPS.

Ross

"Tom S." wrote:

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

I would like a decent moving-map capability, but given that we have none
in
the plane right now, even a simple airspace depiction like the KLN-89B
would
be a significant gain. If we want something snazzy we can get it better on
a
handheld anyway. I would spend an extra $500 for a better map, but $1000
or
$1500 I'd wonder about.

What would you guys do?

I'd stay away from Northstar and the King 89B, but go with the Garmin/Apollo
or the King 90.

The KLN89 is fine so long as you don't actually use it for an approach.
When I did my instrument rating I was the only pilot in a large school to
successfully load an approach. Not one of 14 Instructors had been able to
do it.

Garmin AT has kept the people who were at UPS - this has not been a cut &
gut acquisition. I know people who were part of Apollo/UPS and they think
it was a good deal for them. UPS did not care about them at all.

The GX-50/60 is the best unit out there if you can find one. I'm sticking
with mine until they eliminate the ILS equipment and demand that we all go
to C146 equipment.