About German Mystery Objects

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades. The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

Keith

"Aerophotos" wrote in message
...
|



OK help us out here, is this Jeff the Mirage pilot or Andrew the other son
or Jolly the chicken choker ?


Couldn't suck in that stomach for long, could you ?



Cheers


Dave Kearton

In article ,
Keith Willshaw wrote:
Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they

Probably because Jack Northrop flew his first flying wing aircraft
in 1940

And the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl was flying in the late 1920s, IIRC.
A later version lost out to the Hawker Demon as the RAF two-seat
fighter of the mid-30s, so on this you're right: Flying wings were
*nothing* new, and neither were tailless aeroplanes.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith Willshaw wrote:
Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they

Probably because Jack Northrop flew his first flying wing aircraft
in 1940

And the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl was flying in the late 1920s, IIRC.
A later version lost out to the Hawker Demon as the RAF two-seat
fighter of the mid-30s, so on this you're right: Flying wings were
*nothing* new, and neither were tailless aeroplanes.


I'd forgotten about the Pterodactyl , with regard to disc craft
there was also the The Lee Richards Annular wing of 1911
and the Antes Annular wing air craft of 1933

http://users.skynet.be/nestofdragons..._ringwings.htm

Keith

Except, of course, for the fact that the US along with its allies won
the war.

Then again, the US possessed overwhelming technological superiority in
Vietnam, and still lost.

So what's your point? Mine is that being "technologically" superior
doesn't win wars. If war is an extension of politics by other (more
violent) means (as per Clausewitzl, Lenin and Mao), it's will that
matters. With that in mind, the lessons of both WWII and Vietnam have
already been written. The lessons of ongoing conflicts have yet to be
discerned.

I'd also argue that no nation is superior "in all areas." Certainly
not when we're talking about a conflict that ended nearly 60 years
ago, and in favor of the technologically "inferior" side. When
discussing the merits or deficiencies of US military power, please
choose a more current subject. There are, after all, plenty more
current episodes to choose from.

- M.S.

(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...
Aerophotos wrote in message ...
Well i believe in the German UFO technology in WW2 and jet propelled
objects disc shapes.

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public to
see..

Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

Remember the german as we know were very creative with jets in 40s in
the designs.. so they had big plans by the 50s if it had occurred.
Virtually all US designs followed from them.

Flying wings or discs were nothing new... why do americans think they
are the only ones to be right? Thats is always how americans think,
someone esle designed it but they claim it.

Every country has secrets and protects them like a baby.. germany could
of had a UFO crashes and the world would of not even known bar the high
order of power... Its like saying Groom Lake is controlled by the CIA,
which it is... SS could of easily controlled any UFO programs in
germany.

Americans need to think outside their box.. and credit germans for alot
of their current technology and machines...

Even if UFos were not common knowledge in 1940s, they are nowdays.

Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage (which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle, the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.
Now compare that with the shabby US Army soldier with the old M-1 and
a Bazooka. Hell, in Korea we still looked inferior to the WW2 German
Waffen SS soldier who had cammo, IR, the STG-44 assault rifle, and Pzf
100.
So much for US superiority in all areas.

Rob

In message , robert
arndt writes

Snip

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

I expect that it's long gone. The icebergs that break off Antarctica
will have taken any base with them.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Vergeltungswaffen, just Vril-7. Meanwhile Thule came up with a more
advanced Triebwerk that utilized Coler's free energy machine, a Van
deGraf generator, a mercury sphere, and spherical levitators. This
engine was installed in the large Haunebu craft that flew the Atlantic
and made trips to an area Hitler knew would be safe from Allied
bombing, New Schwabenland in Antartica.

U-boats carried technicians and scientists to a base there, Number
211, via an undersea trench that stretched the entire way through what
was know formerly as Queen Maud Land. Base 211 was carved into a cave
complex similar to Nordhausen and supplied by transport subs,
components of which even the Type XXVI were taken. SS Antartic troops
maintained the base.



Never heard of a U-boat base being given a number. No Type XXVI was ever
built in the war. Work only started on it, late in the war so how is it
suppose to be available in 1939? Nor is SS Antartic listed in a
complete list of every SS-Divisionen formed during WWII.

Base 211 is often referenced as a code-name for the entire Antarctic
program and disc connection.

It is a very unusual German designation.

And why WOULD a secret SS battalion be
listed among the combat divisions?

I did not just check combat divisions! I looked at all. I also looked at
the units that we have little references and that *may* have existed.
Nothing like it. By the way German military records are very good.

Generally if it was an SS battalion it would be so designated eg
SS-Ausbildungs-Battalion or SS-Wirtschafts-Battalion but not always.



The SS E-IV technical branch is
barely known along with the Black Sun SS religious Order, the DHvSS,
and the SS archeological unit that went to South America and Tibet...
among other places searching for sacred relics.

It was listed as SS Tibet mission which would make sense in this context
in other words it would not a military unit as such at all.


You really need to skip basic SS history and read up on the occult
aspects of the Third Reich before opening your mouth. You probably
aren't even aware that the Nazi Party (NSDAP) originated from the
occult Thule/Vril Gesellschafts from way back to 1917. Before that
Thule came from the German Order (aka Order of Teutons) of 1912 and
was also known as the "Luminous Lodge"- directly connected to the
Illuminati.

I think we know of the Thule society here.

That's what makes all of this hard to deal with; the entire Third
Reich cannot be seperated from the occult, its symbolism, its mission,
and its plans for ultimate control over the planet.
Most people don't even recognize the swastika (Hakenkreuz) for what it
symbolizes- the black sun wheel that Thule and Vril worshipped. A dark
violet sun with dark powers. Vril is also the shortened version of
Vri-il "Like God". At the heart of all this is the worship of pure
evil.

Hitler had little interest in this sort of stuff.

Anyway, Base 211 is interesting to speculate on but no one could reach
it on land. Only a submarine could get there if the location was
known. I wonder if the US or USSR ever tried to find it in the trench?
The Germans probably mined the hell out of the area.

You cannot find what does not exist.



Rob


--
To make the economy go, some one has to work.

Observations of Bernard - No 45

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...

If the German scientists and co were so much more advanced then the
Allies with jets and new inventions from 1930s-1945, who knows what
else
was created that after the war the Allies dare not want the public
to
see..


A bemusing little troll. It's equivalent to an American saying that
the Philidephia Experiment really happened. Interesting how everyone
including some mature posters is hooked in though.

But their leads were momentary, if at all. Allied jet fighters were
introduced
within months of German aircraft - and the main differences were
primarily in
the life expectancy of the crew and MTBF for the airframes, so
perhaps the idea
of 'first' didn't necessarily equate to 'better' or 'best'.

To be fair compromises in some aspects of quality were necessary to
redress the quantitative advantages of the allies. the life of a
German airframe was not much in anycase. Note the work they did do
on ejection seats.

We could have
rushed the P-80 into service a wee bit faster if we hung workers
suspected of
slacking off or whipped them to make them work harder, but that
isn't our way.

Actually forced or conscripted labour in production was fairly well
treated and fed, it had to be. It was that labour used in the
exacavation of underground works that appears to have suffered
severely.


German centimetric airborne radar development was a full generation
behind
Allied sets, allowing the cream of the NJG forces and hundreds of
night bombers
to be destroyed by Allied nightfighters. The list of technological
failures is
every bit as dramatic as their successes.

Quite true. The time periode between the discovery of the rotterdam
Garate (a H2S Magnetron lost on a Sterling in Feb 1943) and the
appearence of A few FuG 244 equiped Ju 88G7s in Jan 1945 is about 23
months.

The original German magnetron and microwave development team had been
conscripted into the army and had to be recalled so that expertise was
available. Even before that was done the presence of the magnetron
on ground mapping radar was taken as proof that microwave radar was
not good.

Hell, the brown shirt "geniuses"
didn't even realize the Allies were reading their coded messages
just as fast
as they were transmitted.

Actually craking the code required a mistake to be made and a long
message and when keys changed it could be a while before the were
cracked again. When the u boats began receiving individual messages
in late 1944 with their own unique keys the codes were never cracked.



Even today WW1 secret dealing with US army records are still highly
guarded.. so i can suspect we only saw a tip of iceberg from ww2.

True, but it was a mid-1940s iceberg, not some sort of futuristic
engineering
eutopia where normal linear development is suspended, I guess
because the
Fuhrer willed it to be so? The critical limiting factors to all of
the
wunderwaffe, SS discs and secret bases, are time and resources -
they were
quickly running out of both and no matter how inventive, these guys
were being
directed by criminally inefficient and certifiably crazy egomaniacs
that had no
true interest in sciences. Just what sort of usable engineering
gets created
within the walls of Bedlam?

There truely were some unnecesary stuff up that could have been
avoided if the leadership understood how technology progesses. The
fact that all German radars shared a single frequency and the secrecy
sourounding the effectiveness soruning 'duppel' or the German version
of Window which had so much secrecy placed upon it proper
countermeasures could not be developed.

B2431 wrote:

From: "tim gueguen"


"Erich Adler" wrote in message
.com...

I see that many people here is the United States cannot comprehend the
developments brought on by the Allied bombing campaign against Germany
during the Second World War.


I see that many people, like you, are kooks who will believe anything that's
put to them if it sounds "kewl."


But over in Germany many such books exist on the subject you Americans
find impossible to discuss civily, German disc planes.


Discussion of supposed Germany flying saucers has turned up in a number of
North American released books over the years, ranging from a '70s release
written by Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel under a penname to Nick Cook's The
Hunt For Zero Point.



The SS, however, had been involved in the black arts since the Nazis
took power and had both Hitler's and Himmler's backing to develope
occult craft from the Thule and Vril Gesellschafts.

If only the Nazis had wasted more effort on such nonsense, assuming of
course they actually


These black
societies centering around occult teachings and two psychic mediums
sometime in the 1930's built a flying disc that utilized technology
derived from occult science. It flew badly and crashed but worked
continued with the help of a Dr. Schumann who invented levitators
centered around a liquid mercury sphere and various spinning internal
disc plates that somehow caused a rotating magnetic field effect.

And your proof that any of the crap you're spewing is true is?


It's all in a classified file at Wright-Pat, Area 51, a vault X (fill in as
needed) number of stories below the Pentagon, in a secret underground Antarctic
base the Nazis built or accidentally burned as trash. Your version may vary
based soley on your paranoia or sense of humour. Want to buy a tinfoil hat?

I'd just like to know how come we don't see anything derived from
these "crashed UFO's"? Keeping something secret and never actually
using it sort of defeats the purpose of having it.

Is it simply the technology and materials are so far advanced of
what we are capable of producing, we have no choice but to store
it in a vault until Earthling science and technology catch up?

Sort of like expecting a cave man to copy a microprocessor.


SMH

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...


Well said. Three cheers for the guy with a brain!
I'll give you another example comparison between US and German
tech
from 1945.
Had the war gone on just until the fall of 1945 the German soldier
would have had: a new M44 stalhelm, M44 Liebermuster camouflage
(which
contained carbon and IR defeating dyes), the STG-45 assault rifle,
the
Pzf 150 AT weapon, and Nipolit formed disc grenades.

Reliant on horse drawn vehicles for resupply.

The British were reliant on Americans for resupply.

The reality is that Germany was a resource poor nation that had only
forrest and coal and horse drawn logistics was all that was possible
withou access to cheap steel and oil.

In the meantime the British were Lording it up secure in the monopoly
and control they had of the the rerources of their colonies oil,
rubber, tin, manganese, nickel, chromium, tungsten, steel etc. They
forced boer familes intio concentration camps where they died of
disease and poor food to secure yet more colonies, they helped Turks
to invade Bulgaria and Just to swipe at the Russians who were heling
their christian allies and all sorts of excuses to cut down anyone
that might one day rival them by fair means.


The most shocking thing for most British soldiers when they closed
the Falaise gap was to discover that most German army units
were totally reliant on horse and cart to deliver supplies
from the railhead. Every British Infantry division had been
motorised since 1945 and they also realised that while the
SS might be well supplied with weapons and material
the average Wermacht soldier had to walk into battle on his
own two legs, was armed with the 5 shot bolt action
Karabiner 98k rifle of 1898 vintage and WW1 designed
hand grenades.


The Panzershreck was of course inspired
by the Bazooka

The Bazooka was a miserable weapon, panzerschreck adressed its
weaknesses. Allied soldiers in Normany had to use captured
panzerschreks and panzerfausts becuase the bazooka and the infinetely
more miserable PIAT were so ineffective.

The Panzerfaust was however a very effective weapon that owes nothing
to the bazooka. In its ultimate form the reloadable Panzerfaust 250
it was the basis of the RPG-7. A weapon more memorable and usefull
than the clumsy, bulky and awkward bazooka.



Had they managed to survive into 1945 without being Nuked
the Germans would have been facing large numbers
of M-26 and Centurion battle tanks which were
superior to anything they had

The more advanced panther tanks and their new schmalturm turrets had
gyro-stabalised turrets, 88mm cannon and stereoscopic range finders so
they would have matched the newer UK and USA tanks.


and fleets of the new US and
British jet fighters. Germany was on the wrong side of the
arms production curve from 1942 onwards. There was no
other way to go than down.

You've been around long enough to know that German arms production
peaked in 1944.


The Germans and allies were well matched intellectually. The Germans
lagged in some areas and lead in some. In the end they, and the axis,
were defeated by far superior resources: the USA, UK, Australia,
Canada, NZ, Soviet Union.

This nazi sorcer stuff is almost as much nonsense as the Area 51 and
Philidelpahia experiment nonsense. I say almost as much becuase theor
possibly were some type of VTOL and lenticular vehicle research work
using normal aerodynamic principles.



Keith