Videos: Su-37 Superflanker vs F-22 Raptor

Scott Ferrin wrote:
On 4 Jan 2004 02:02:26 -0800, (Alejandro
Magno) wrote:


Scott Ferrin wrote

That video of the B-52 crashing is a pretty scarey one. BTW is there
some reason you feel the need to dog the US rather than to try to
remain somewhat objective? I looked at your other post and it seems
like you are more interested in attempting to prove something than in
genuinely exchanging thoughts and information. If I'm wrong please
correct me.

I hope I am not violating the policies of this group.
Sometimes I think that the USA is overrated.

Magno



You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:24:02 +0000, John Mullen
wrote:

Scott Ferrin wrote:
On 4 Jan 2004 02:02:26 -0800, (Alejandro
Magno) wrote:


Scott Ferrin wrote

That video of the B-52 crashing is a pretty scarey one. BTW is there
some reason you feel the need to dog the US rather than to try to
remain somewhat objective? I looked at your other post and it seems
like you are more interested in attempting to prove something than in
genuinely exchanging thoughts and information. If I'm wrong please
correct me.

I hope I am not violating the policies of this group.
Sometimes I think that the USA is overrated.

Magno



You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John


Way to chip in from the nosebleed seats.

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
om...
"John Carrier" wrote in message
...
Commets ?

Hardly a fair comparison ... Su product demo versus YF flight mishap.

Maneuverability is not the panacea it might appear. 180 degree heading
reversals in a phone booth certainly impress, but the aircraft is an
inviting target while performing them. It might be interesting to see a
1v1, guns only engagement between the two aircraft, but it'd be
irrelevant.

Other aerodynamic factors ... speed, range, run-out capability,
endurance
... are more significant. Tactics (how you employ the aircraft) are
important. And the final argument is weapons system performance.

There are numerous examples of less-maneuverable aircraft gaining
superiority over their better turning adversaries. But I bet the Su is
a
kick in the ass to fly!

R / John

References of Su-37:

Feredarion of American Scientists
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-37.htm

USNews:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politic...perflanker.htm

Sukhoi's Chief Designer
http://tomcat.fnet.cz/su37_popis.htm

Global Security
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/su-37.htm

A plane lover:
http://www.geocities.com/fighterplanelover/su37.html

Magno

Magno. The Su-37, bort 711, crashed in Dec 2002. It had already been
returned back to Su-35 before its demise.

TJ

John Mullen wrote

Scott Ferrin wrote:
You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John

There is no censorship in this forum.

More about censorshiop he
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...+la+democracia

Magno

Scott Ferrin wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:24:02 +0000, John Mullen
wrote:


Scott Ferrin wrote:

On 4 Jan 2004 02:02:26 -0800, (Alejandro
Magno) wrote:



Scott Ferrin wrote


That video of the B-52 crashing is a pretty scarey one. BTW is there
some reason you feel the need to dog the US rather than to try to
remain somewhat objective? I looked at your other post and it seems
like you are more interested in attempting to prove something than in
genuinely exchanging thoughts and information. If I'm wrong please
correct me.

I hope I am not violating the policies of this group.
Sometimes I think that the USA is overrated.

Magno



You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John



Way to chip in from the nosebleed seats.

I've read this backwards forwards and sideways and it just doesn't mean
anything to me. What were you trying to express by your post?

(Talk about two cultures divided by a common language!)

John

You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John



Way to chip in from the nosebleed seats.

I've read this backwards forwards and sideways and it just doesn't mean
anything to me. What were you trying to express by your post?


If you really don't understand it I'll explain it. Your comment about
me being generous by saying he's entitled to his own opinion when I
was just trying to help out a newbie sounds like sarcasm. It sounds
like you're saying I'm bestowing the right to have an opinion on him
like I think I have some kind of authority to do so. That wasn't my
intent at all as anybody could read in my post. So your comment comes
across like an insult so I insulted you back. Nosebleed seats are
those WAY the hell up in the rafters in a stadium. At a Jazz/Bulls
game when they were playing for the NBA Championship I could damn near
stand up and hang from the rafters of the Delta Center. Anyway
"nosebleed" implies you're up so high that you risk a nosebleed from
the thinner air up there (don't even know if that's true but whoever
said sayings need to be true). Anyway (I'm getting there) I'm saying
that your comment was like one of those people up in the rafters
screaming down at the refs for a bad call like they think that they
know better than everybody else, and that their opinion matters or is
even heard.

If you were just joking about how sometimes here on the newsgroups
people get screamed at merely for voicing their opinon (who hasn't
experienced that) then I apologize for the insult.






(Talk about two cultures divided by a common language!)

John

Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
You're not violating any policies per say (I'm not even sure there are
any except basic courtesy) but when one rambles on about the supposed
superiority of a country, airplane, whatever with the express intent
of ****ing people off it doesn't go over real well and it's not long
before people stop taking you seriously and see you as nothing more
than an annoyance. If you think the Su-37 is superior to the F-22
then great. Tell us why and if it's just your opinion or actually
based on facts. The fact that you started off with a video of an F-22
prototype crashing while the Flanker does a couple flips suggests all
you wanted to do is slam the F-22. That being the case there are
people here that would be more than happy to slam you right back but
in the end you'll simply be ignored. If you feel like the US is
overrated then fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

Really? Hey, that's very generous of you!

John



Way to chip in from the nosebleed seats.

I've read this backwards forwards and sideways and it just doesn't mean
anything to me. What were you trying to express by your post?


If you really don't understand it I'll explain it. Your comment about
me being generous by saying he's entitled to his own opinion when I
was just trying to help out a newbie sounds like sarcasm. It sounds
like you're saying I'm bestowing the right to have an opinion on him
like I think I have some kind of authority to do so. That wasn't my
intent at all as anybody could read in my post. So your comment comes
across like an insult so I insulted you back. Nosebleed seats are
those WAY the hell up in the rafters in a stadium. At a Jazz/Bulls
game when they were playing for the NBA Championship I could damn near
stand up and hang from the rafters of the Delta Center. Anyway
"nosebleed" implies you're up so high that you risk a nosebleed from
the thinner air up there (don't even know if that's true but whoever
said sayings need to be true). Anyway (I'm getting there) I'm saying
that your comment was like one of those people up in the rafters
screaming down at the refs for a bad call like they think that they
know better than everybody else, and that their opinion matters or is
even heard.

If you were just joking about how sometimes here on the newsgroups
people get screamed at merely for voicing their opinon (who hasn't
experienced that) then I apologize for the insult.


If you worry about me, take it easy. I did not read any insults. So,
apology not taken because there is no reason to apologize. Nothing.

I think you were very respectful. I showed an American plane crashing,
you showed a Russian plane crashing. Planes crash every once in a
while. Sometimes, sarcasm can make a conversation a little more
interesting.

You and I are even. In the case you had ridiculized many more Russian
planes I would feel sad but I would not engage in a personal attack
for that. If you show pictures or movies of planes, you are just
showing evidence, not opinions. No reason to take that as a personal
attack, maybe with some sarcasm.

You can see in the other thread "Russian Military Technology" how
people got personal with me since the beginning, every argument I gave
they made fun of me. Then, I fought back and really ridiculized them,
I lost my control. But, you know, you go and read the thread. You can
clearly see who started the personal attacks. Those people do not know
that I have this condition: http://www.ocfoundation.org/

I lost my control, but they lost the respect for me, first.

There was one guy named Keith Willshaw
) who first said this:



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:....demon.co .uk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Willshaw )
Subject: Russian Military Technology
View: Complete Thread (63 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.russian, rec.aviation.military,
sci.military.naval
Date: 2004-01-06 10:54:12 PST

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
m...
"Ragnar" wrote in message ...
I would note that Kursk was fought by the SOVIETS, not the Russians.

Thanks, I did not know that there were not Russians in the Soviet Army.

You are a fool.

The Soviet Army included Georgians, Armenians, Ukranians,
ByeloRussians,
Uzbeks, Kazajhs etc. etc.

Keith

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As you can see Mr Keith Willshaw does not know how to read. I never
said that there were only Russians in the Soviet army. I read better
than him, and English is not my first language. Maybe he does not know
what logic is.

Then he says:




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:....aspentech.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Willshaw )
Subject: Russian Military Technology
View: Complete Thread (186 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Date: 2004-01-06 01:34:59 PST

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
om...
(B2431) wrote
Aha, magno shows his true colours.
Now tell us ALL about ZOG and the great international Zionist conspiracies.
Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

A CATACLYSM

The Russians already started to roll the ball:
http://www.lebensraum.org/english/zg...06/990614.html


The sound of their brave singing is heard! We are coming, brave
comrades!

Your White Aryan brothers in England, Greece, Sweden, Nigeria,
Iceland, America, South Africa, Italy, France, Denmark, Argentina,
Chile, Mother Russia, Scandinavia, Brazil, Canada, Serbia --
EVERYWHERE -- hear you! We are COMING! MARCHING! FIGHTING! The Great
Day of JUSTICE DRAWS NIGH!

I hate to tell you this old boy but Nigerians and the majority of
South Africans and Brazilians are not white.

ISTR that the Russians were regarded by the Aryan master race
as sub human Slavs so I suspect you just failed your entrance
exam for the SS

You are one of the most entertaining loons we have seen
for some time, please keep posting.

Keith
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He asks me to keep posting, because he enjoys what I write. I hope he
enjoys it, and I hope he understands what he reads because we already
know that he does not know how to read. He has comprehension problems.

Then,


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...0%2540n ews.d
mon.co.uk%26rnum%3D2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Willshaw )
Subject: Russian Military Technology
View: Complete Thread (186 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Date: 2004-01-06 11:32:08 PST

"Jarg" wrote in message
.. .
This is way out of line. You should be ashamed of yourself. And you are
undoubtedly in violation of your ISP agreement.

Jarg


He appears to be posting from Mexico
via Telmex

nic-hdl: SRU
person: SEGURIDAD DE RED UNINET
e-mail:
address: PERIFERICO SUR, 3190, ALVARO OBREG
address: 01900 - MEXICO - DF
country: MX

I believe that country passed legislation in 2003 making anti-semitic
behaviour unlawful

Personally i simply intend to add his name to my killfile.

Keith

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First, he enjoys my posts, then he says he is going to put me in his
killfile. Once more, I prove that Mr. Keith Willshaw does not know how
to read. Or, maybe, his computer has hacked, and different people made
the 3 posts I am showing.

If Mr. Keith Willshaw wrote the 3 posts, the conclusion is that his
eyes are not connected to his brain, because he does not know how to
read. Or maybe his hands are not connected to his brain and he does
not know how to express himself by written methods. Maybe he is on
medication, too.

I called the fact of using killfiles the technique of the ostriches. I
think this is self-explanatory:
http://www.windmillsprogramme.com/im...ls/ostrich.jpg
http://www.pecos.net/news/images/ostrich.gif
http://www.carruthillustrative.com/images/ostcvr.jpg
http://www.learnersonline.com/weekly...2/2k0611_4.gif
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/images/Image19.gif

I apologize if my comments about Mr Keith "the ostrich" Willshaw
bother you.

Magnus

If you were just joking about how sometimes here on the newsgroups
people get screamed at merely for voicing their opinon (who hasn't
experienced that) then I apologize for the insult.


If you worry about me, take it easy. I did not read any insults. So,
apology not taken because there is no reason to apologize. Nothing.


I think you got things mixed up. I was replying to the guy directly
above.




I think you were very respectful. I showed an American plane crashing,
you showed a Russian plane crashing. Planes crash every once in a
while. Sometimes, sarcasm can make a conversation a little more
interesting.

Yeah, I almost posted that one where the Su-27 took out the crowd but
that would have been in REALLY bad taste.





You and I are even. In the case you had ridiculized many more Russian
planes I would feel sad but I would not engage in a personal attack
for that. If you show pictures or movies of planes, you are just
showing evidence, not opinions. No reason to take that as a personal
attack, maybe with some sarcasm.

I never took anything as a personal attack.




You can see in the other thread "Russian Military Technology" how
people got personal with me since the beginning, every argument I gave
they made fun of me. Then, I fought back and really ridiculized them,
I lost my control. But, you know, you go and read the thread. You can
clearly see who started the personal attacks. Those people do not know
that I have this condition: http://www.ocfoundation.org/


I knew someone who had that and his life was a wreck. He never got it
diagnosed but he should have because it really affected his job. He
was excellent at what he did but he could never say "okay this is good
enough". He'd keep tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. We eventually
had to let him go because he never got anything done on time. Anyway
as far as this group goes the only thing that I've noticed that really
sets people off is when people say things are such and such a way,
offer nothing to back it up other than "because I say so" and then get
mad or insulting if you don't agree with them.

Scott Ferrin wrote in
:
On 3 Jan 2004 22:39:44 -0800,
(Alejandro Magno) wrote:

Thanks for the videos, you can find more he
http://www.globemaster.de/airextreme/jets.html

Alejandro Magno I

That video of the B-52 crashing is a pretty scarey one.

The A6 video always shocked me, but I never saw the whole
video to know the poor guy actually survived, and infact
without major injury. Thank's!

BTW, anyone know if the F16s in the lineup were hit by
the tornado in the shot there?


Regards...

"Bjørnar Bolsøy

The A6 video always shocked me, but I never saw the whole
video to know the poor guy actually survived, and infact
without major injury. Thank's!

His name was John David Bridges. He gave an interview on a programme called
Ripley's believe it or not. He revealed that he only suffered minor injuries
and named his son Blade after the incident.

TJ