Asg29 very slow water dumping issue (20+ minutes and wings still halffull or more)

This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:48:05 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

Email sent. #711.

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:48:05 AM UTC-5, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

Sean, it is probably the vent tube that connects to tube in the wing tip. It is either bent and not connected to the wing tip (happens during assembly) or it is simply blocked in the main wing. Try to blow with your lungs into the tube in the main wing while valve is open to see if if the air flows properly. If it does do the same with the wing tip tube.
When you assemble make sure the silicon tube goes over the wing tip tube. I would use some Vaseline on the connection to help.

At 11:48 14 December 2016, Sean wrote:
Sean
It's worth checking the deflection of the "paddles" that push the dump
valves and auto-connect as you push the wings in while rigging. Mine was
dumping at different/asymmetric rates and that was the root (pardon the
pun) cause. It's an easy adjustment to make.
Jon

This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow
dum=
ping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure
i=
t was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15
gallons=
a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they
are
=
clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the
o=
uter panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru
eas=
ily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I
was
=
empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of
water
=
still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water
to=
dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle?
Anyone
=
else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the
expec=
ted dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe
I
=
thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank
v=
alve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the
case
=
it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water
was
=
flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve
hand=
le was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone
easil=
y, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional
d=
umps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

At 11:48 14 December 2016, Sean wrote:
Sean
It's worth checking the deflection of the "paddles" that push the dump
valves and auto-connect as you push the wings in while rigging. Mine was
dumping at different/asymmetric rates and that was the root (pardon the
pun) cause. It's an easy adjustment to make.
Jon

This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow
dum=
ping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure
i=
t was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15
gallons=
a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they
are
=
clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the
o=
uter panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru
eas=
ily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I
was
=
empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of
water
=
still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water
to=
dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle?
Anyone
=
else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the
expec=
ted dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe
I
=
thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank
v=
alve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the
case
=
it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water
was
=
flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve
hand=
le was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone
easil=
y, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional
d=
umps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:48:05 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

The operating levers inside the fuselage which push on the rod which opens the valve. Ok, so when the dump lever is moved to its dump position, and water is coming out, push on those metal operating levers inside the fuselage, above and behind where your battery's are and see if that opens the valves anymore and increases the flow.
What sometimes happens is folks do not close the dump lever and those metal levers hit the rods and then they slam he wing on which can cause damage/or worse bend that rod. If the rod is slighty bent, then that could also be a problem as to why they are not fully openning. If I was their this is easy, go slow, do step one first to determine if its the valves or the drain vent lines.

#711.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail?

Based upon your known history of RAS multiple personality disorder its highly likely that you opened your dump valve then experienced what appeared to be a 15 minute time lapse during your Wilbur phase. When Sean regained control of your mind it had really only been 3 minutes. Be careful over there Sean (Wilbur). Such mental lapses could get someone killed during ATs with 40+ gliders playing chicken that you have so often demanded.

I'm glad I could help clear things up for Sean (Wilbur) and issue this friendly safety warning to the rest of the WGC field.

Aren't you the classy one, Kevin?

If anyone has any constructive or helpful comments, I would also be interested in hearing them.

Thanks in advance,
Tiffany

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 8:39:26 AM UTC-5, Kevin Christner wrote:
Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail?

Based upon your known history of RAS multiple personality disorder its highly likely that you opened your dump valve then experienced what appeared to be a 15 minute time lapse during your Wilbur phase. When Sean regained control of your mind it had really only been 3 minutes. Be careful over there Sean (Wilbur). Such mental lapses could get someone killed during ATs with 40+ gliders playing chicken that you have so often demanded.

I'm glad I could help clear things up for Sean (Wilbur) and issue this friendly safety warning to the rest of the WGC field.

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:48:05 AM UTC-5, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

List of stuff to look at:
1- verify dump valves open fully
2- Make sure connector tubes from vents are not pinched. Easy to pinch if assembling quickly.
3- Verify that all vent lines are clear, both in tips and to inner tanks.
4- Use drilled fill caps(1/4 hole) , with check valve inside to allow air in but not out
As a diagnostic do dump test on the ground with caps off. It will differ from the air but not hugely.
My guess is poor venting from experience.
UH

On 12/14/2016 6:48 AM, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean



Hey Sean, are you using factory or the US modified fast dump valves?
Can you actuate the valves on the ground? How does it feel when you
push on the actuator rod with the wing out? Does the bowden cable move
freely with the wings out? Not sure if any of this is helpful - just
things I would look at if it was my ship.

Cheers
Luke