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#11
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
On 17 Aug 2006 09:49:04 -0700, "Bret Ludwig"
wrote in . com: Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:19:22 -0700, Sylvain wrote in : Larry Dighera wrote: Please explain how a data link would be useful in controlling an aircraft that has lost communication capability due to electrical system failure. the same way one would for *any* aircraft that has lost communication capability as described in AIM 6-4-1 for instance? Please explain how aircraft that has lost (data link and all radio) communication capability due to electrical system failure will be able to receive the green 'cleared to land' light gun signal upon arrival if light guns are eliminated as suggested. Aircraft wouldn't lose the datalink because it would have a backup battery. That wouldn't provide the same level of safety as a ground based system. But if it did they could use just one color light and three or four Morse characters which everyone would be required to memorize. Every pilot knows S, O, A, and N (even though AN ranges have went where VOR should have years ago, but I digress) and most people know "V" from Beethoven's FIFTH-da-da-da-dum. I suppose that's reasonable. It's more complex, but if we are truly a brotherhood of airmen, I suppose we can accommodate the physically challenged in that small way. |
#12
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
In article . com,
"Bret Ludwig" wrote: Aircraft wouldn't lose the datalink because it would have a backup battery. a backup battery doesn't mean much when the equipment itself dies. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#13
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
Larry Dighera wrote:
one, nobody suggests eliminating the light guns, Retiring the signal lights would be beneficial to the colorblind, but devastating to the deaf. fair enough. So someone did suggest it, bad idea nonetheless. Perhaps you'd be good enough to point out the part of AIM 6-4-1 that exempts a flight from receiving a clearance to land from ATC at towered airports: good, so you can cut and paste, we now just have to work a bit on the reading comprehension part; now pay attention to the part that says 'and land as soon as practicable' (for the VFR part); do you understand what 'practicable' mean? if your first field of choice is not 'practicable' -- for instance because it requires a clearance that you now are unable to receive -- then pick another one -- for instance one which is not controled, there are quite a few to choose from. As for the flight in IFR is concerned, it is also explained in excruciating details, try reading it again. --Sylvain |
#14
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:34:31 -0700, Sylvain wrote in
: Larry Dighera wrote: one, nobody suggests eliminating the light guns, Retiring the signal lights would be beneficial to the colorblind, but devastating to the deaf. fair enough. So someone did suggest it, bad idea nonetheless. Perhaps you'd be good enough to point out the part of AIM 6-4-1 that exempts a flight from receiving a clearance to land from ATC at towered airports: good, so you can cut and paste, Am I to infer from that statement, that you don't appreciate the effort I expended in researching the information and providing it as reference material for this discussion? Personally, I prefer having the words of the actual citation before me when making decisions based on them, don't you? we now just have to work a bit on the reading comprehension part; now pay attention to the part that says 'and land as soon as practicable' (for the VFR part); do you understand what 'practicable' mean? [sic] if your first field of choice is not 'practicable' -- for instance because it requires a clearance that you now are unable to receive -- then pick another one -- for instance one which is not controled, there are quite a few to choose from. As for the flight in IFR is concerned, it is also explained in excruciating details, try reading it again. (Someone is going to have to enlighten you on the function of the Shift key.) So there is no such part, that exempts a flight from receiving a clearance to land from ATC at towered airports contained in AIM Section 6-4-1: Two-way Radio Communications Failure. Thank you. To summarize, retiring FAA light gun equipment, would result in the inability of a flight to land at a towered airport in the event of lost communication as a result of total electrical system failure. So when my headset plug makes intermittent contact while I'm on short final at my destination (towered) airport, you suggest that I abort the landing, and head for an uncontrolled field, rather than see the green light from the tower and land? Your smug attitude belies your shallow analysis of the issue. |
#15
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
Jose wrote: I've noticed myself that the green (in airport beacons) is often not a well saturated green, and the green (on wingtips) is often blue. Perhaps secondary colors would work better for colorblind people while not being hard to distinguish for normally sighted people. When flying at night (at a distance) I often have to watch the beacon for a bit to discern white from green. After a few cycles I can tell the brighter white from the dimmer green. On a sunny day the red & white lights on a VASI often are hard to tell apart until I'm within 1 mile. I have a red/green deficiency but can tell white from green from red well enough to have passed the signal lamp test to get a SODA. |
#16
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
Larry Dighera wrote:
Am I to infer from that statement, that you don't appreciate the effort I expended in researching the information and providing it as reference material for this discussion? something I did myself before posting to refresh my memory, google: AIM site:faa.gov total time: about 2 1/2 seconds, but I didn't want to clutter a post by something that anyone could get easily. But thanks for the effort. So there is no such part, that exempts a flight from receiving a clearance to land from ATC at towered airports contained in AIM Section 6-4-1: Two-way Radio Communications Failure. Thank you. you definitely have to work on this reading comprehension thing. Seriously. May be English is not your native language. Ask someone to explain it to you, hire an instructor, do something. To summarize, retiring FAA light gun equipment, would result in the inability of a flight to land at a towered airport in the event of lost communication as a result of total electrical system failure. Total electrical system failu either you are in VMC and then this is not really a problem, although it might be, this is your call after all, or you are in IMC in which case this is an emergency and you do whatever it takes to complete the flight safely (you may want to read 14 CFR 91.3 -- it is online too, no need to post it here) So when my headset plug makes intermittent contact while I'm on short final at my destination (towered) airport, you suggest that I abort the landing, and head for an uncontrolled field, rather than see the green light from the tower and land? If you have to ask, I suggest that you take remedial training. --Sylvain Your smug attitude belies your shallow analysis of the issue. I had to think about this one for a minute, thought you were being ironic, it was difficult to tell. |
#17
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
On 17 Aug 2006 09:49:04 -0700, "Bret Ludwig"
wrote: Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:19:22 -0700, Sylvain wrote in : Larry Dighera wrote: Please explain how a data link would be useful in controlling an aircraft that has lost communication capability due to electrical system failure. the same way one would for *any* aircraft that has lost communication capability as described in AIM 6-4-1 for instance? Please explain how aircraft that has lost (data link and all radio) communication capability due to electrical system failure will be able to receive the green 'cleared to land' light gun signal upon arrival if light guns are eliminated as suggested. Aircraft wouldn't lose the datalink because it would have a backup battery. But if it did they could use just one color light and three or four Morse characters which everyone would be required to memorize. Every pilot knows S, O, A, and N (even though AN ranges have went where VOR should have years ago, but I digress) and most people know "V" from Beethoven's FIFTH-da-da-da-dum. I seem to recall being required to demonstrate the ability to identify VOR stations by listening to the Morse coded identifier. This was during my training for the private certificate. I astonished my CFI by listening to the ID just once and then saying, "Ok, that's MZB (or whatever)" without refering to the sectional chart where the morse is given thusly -- --.. -... for MZB. He said, "How'd you do that?" I explained I'd been a ham since I was a kid and could easily decode those things in my head. So.....we're already supposed to be able to do this so how come the tower guys can't talk to NORDO guys this way? Klein, NA7NA |
#18
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The Deaf vs. The Colorblind
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:38:43 -0600, Klein wrote in
: so how come the tower guys can't talk to NORDO guys this way? No necessity? |
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