looking for advice on lead n follow flights

On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 6:49:56 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well said!

For me, a single lead and follow showed me what the sky looked like from
out of gliding distance from home and that there was, in fact, lift "out
there".Â* Then I started working my way further away solo and, yes,
landing out occasionally.

Isn't it far easier to both sit in the same reasonable-performance two seater? You can't lose each other, the guy in back can shut up as much as he wants (safety pilot only) or give tips, or even maybe save the flight from time to time (e.g. if low in mountains and some precise close-in flying is needed)

Duos and DG1000s are fairly plentiful and perform as well as modern standard class, but Grobs will do the job (especially the original Twin Astir).

On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 1:31:00 PM UTC-8, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 6:49:56 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well said!

For me, a single lead and follow showed me what the sky looked like from
out of gliding distance from home and that there was, in fact, lift "out
there".Â* Then I started working my way further away solo and, yes,
landing out occasionally.

Isn't it far easier to both sit in the same reasonable-performance two seater? You can't lose each other, the guy in back can shut up as much as he wants (safety pilot only) or give tips, or even maybe save the flight from time to time (e.g. if low in mountains and some precise close-in flying is needed)

Duos and DG1000s are fairly plentiful and perform as well as modern standard class, but Grobs will do the job (especially the original Twin Astir).

This is exactly what the Cypress Soaring Club in Southern California does with our PW-6, and it works great. I had several long straight-out flights with either our instructors or highly experienced cross-country pilots, and then began to make my own long(ish) cross-country flights in my own ship. For folks who have spent most of their time hanging around in the local air, such experiences can be a real eye-opener as to the the actual performance available. We also use the straight-out flights as an opportunity to train club members the art and science of being part of a ground crew; a ground crew is required by the club for any cross-country attempts. Fun for all!

I will chime in with several authors. First as background, I have flown lead, I have followed as a fledgling, and lead from behind. Now that I am instructing I prefer the last. As somone said, none of these techniques will make a cross country pilot out of one that is not ready or willing. But that said, part of the goal is to make fledgling pilots more comfortable away from home. Or for that matter, make the next airport feel like home (and the next, and the next...).

My experience following as a student, you don't learn much, as you just follow. As has been said, you must focus on following so not to lose the leader. For the most part, the decisions are the leaders.

Leading from behind puts the onus of keeping the formation in the hands of the more experienced pilot. Pick a "private" frequency and a lot of coaching can happen. When the student heads out, it is to the wide blue yonder, not on the heels of the instructor.

I have the privlage of a partnership in a duo, and have done a number of 2 place XC instructional flights in that. For students that are going to do there first XC in club ships (1-34 or B-4 in our case) the duo has an issue as the performance is perceived as vastly greater that the club ships. So, while we got them away from home, there is this lingering thought that "sure we went XC, but it was in a DUO". Not as effective as going in their own ship.

Now there is a place for all of this, but each has different benafits.

Rick

Wife and I saw it Friday night, we loved it..... have fun.....

Hi. A known reference in lead and follow flights is Klaus Ohlmann. You might wanna ask him his useful pieces of advice.

I have flown at St. Auban France many times. They use lead and follow for instruction and as a way to check-out pilots before they let them fly cross-country on their own. The instructor flew a two place with a student and there were two or three single place planes.

We would all launch and gather at a staging area with well known lift. then the instructor would announce the next meeting area and off we all went following a course given by the instructor. We were always in direct vision with the others.

The system was very dependant upon the instructor pilot being an extreme master of soaring who would charge off to join up with a pilot in trouble and lead them to a thermal and gaggle with them during the climb. Some of the saves by the instructor were memorable. The instructor flew at least twice the milage of any other plane in the group.

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 5:16:39 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I have flown at St. Auban France many times. They use lead and follow for instruction and as a way to check-out pilots before they let them fly cross-country on their own. The instructor flew a two place with a student and there were two or three single place planes.

We would all launch and gather at a staging area with well known lift. then the instructor would announce the next meeting area and off we all went following a course given by the instructor. We were always in direct vision with the others.

The system was very dependant upon the instructor pilot being an extreme master of soaring who would charge off to join up with a pilot in trouble and lead them to a thermal and gaggle with them during the climb. Some of the saves by the instructor were memorable. The instructor flew at least twice the milage of any other plane in the group.

I certainly heard about the St. Auban practice (have flown many times 'en Provence') and French instructors are the best for lead and follow, I guess. However, I much prefer to have a good instructor sitting behind me and talk me through the flight. Had a memorable one from Barcelonnette to Mt. Ventoux and back in a Grob 102. Wouldn't have made it home into the high terrain with the (German) instructor. So yes, I modify my prior statement: x-country training is a 2-seater works.
Herb