Spin ?

http://www.jumpingpixels.com/russianjetcrash.html

Not a glider but shows what can happen without enough height to recover.

Mal wrote:
http://www.jumpingpixels.com/russianjetcrash.html

Not a glider but shows what can happen without enough height to recover.


It shows why exhibition pilots never work toward the crowd at air shows
in the US, and haven't for many years. One of those GOOD rules from the FAA.

http://www.jumpingpixels.com/russianjetcrash.html

Do you suppose Ukraine will change their rules now?


Jack

Jack wrote:
Mal wrote:
http://www.jumpingpixels.com/russianjetcrash.html

Not a glider but shows what can happen without enough height to recover.


It shows why exhibition pilots never work toward the crowd at air shows
in the US, and haven't for many years. One of those GOOD rules from the
FAA.

I have been at two airshows in the past several years where the jets
turned towards the crowd (in the USA). Scary.


http://www.jumpingpixels.com/russianjetcrash.html

Do you suppose Ukraine will change their rules now?


Jack

Greg Arnold wrote:

I have been at two airshows in the past several years where the jets
turned towards the crowd (in the USA). Scary.

What performers? What shows?


Jack

Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:

I have been at two airshows in the past several years where the jets
turned towards the crowd (in the USA). Scary.

What performers? What shows?

Edwards about 3 years ago, and Pt. Mugu this past fall. Don't remember
what type of jet at Edwards. At Mugu it was either an F-16 or F-18,
doing a high G turn towards the crowd.



Jack

At a show just today, the announcer specifically mentioned the fact that the
performers would not work over or toward the crowd. So I watched the
directions of their flights. I saw some non-military performers turn toward
the crowd. In my estimation if they had lost control at about 200-300' AGL
their inertia alone would have carried them into the crowd.

"Jack" wrote in message
. com...

It shows why exhibition pilots never work toward the crowd at air shows
in the US, and haven't for many years. One of those GOOD rules from the
FAA.

Greg Arnold wrote:

Edwards about 3 years ago, and Pt. Mugu this past fall. Don't remember
what type of jet at Edwards. At Mugu it was either an F-16 or F-18,
doing a high G turn towards the crowd.

Interesting. I think the Blues and the Thunderbirds have that as a well
standardized no-no. I'm surprised that the FAA and various responsible
organizations have not enforced such restrictions as thoroughly as I
expected.

Every venue must have its own challenges WRT airspace and topography,
but still, we should know better by now.


Jack

Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:

Edwards about 3 years ago, and Pt. Mugu this past fall. Don't
remember what type of jet at Edwards. At Mugu it was either an F-16
or F-18, doing a high G turn towards the crowd.

Interesting. I think the Blues and the Thunderbirds have that as a well
standardized no-no.

I have never seen either of those demonstration teams turn toward the
crowd. It was only a lone jet doing high-G turns right in front of the
crowd.

I'm surprised that the FAA and various responsible
organizations have not enforced such restrictions as thoroughly as I
expected.

I presume that the FAA can't take away a military pilot's license, so
there may not be much that can be done, short of shutting down an airshow.

Every venue must have its own challenges WRT airspace and topography,
but still, we should know better by now.

Sooner or later, there will be a disaster.



Jack

It would have been an F-16. The Navy removed the 360 deg minimum
radius turn from its single ship performance demos years ago. They
replaced it with a figure 8 bow tie maneuver which keeps the flight
path vector from passing thru the crowd. WRR
Greg Arnold wrote:
Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:

Edwards about 3 years ago, and Pt. Mugu this past fall. Don't
remember what type of jet at Edwards. At Mugu it was either an F-16
or F-18, doing a high G turn towards the crowd.

Interesting. I think the Blues and the Thunderbirds have that as a well
standardized no-no.

I have never seen either of those demonstration teams turn toward the
crowd. It was only a lone jet doing high-G turns right in front of the
crowd.

I'm surprised that the FAA and various responsible
organizations have not enforced such restrictions as thoroughly as I
expected.

I presume that the FAA can't take away a military pilot's license, so
there may not be much that can be done, short of shutting down an airshow.

Every venue must have its own challenges WRT airspace and topography,
but still, we should know better by now.

Sooner or later, there will be a disaster.



Jack

From a knowledgeable poster on another list...

"Aerobatic maneuvering towards the crowd/airshow line is prohibited.
(for example rolls, loops, pullups, cuban eights, spins, any
recoveries,etc.) To do so, a waiver letter from the FAA must be
obtained where each maneuver is described and analyzed for scatter
field effects from a loss of a aircraft part/hardware/external
store, etc., and also from debris from a ground contact. Very few
of these [waivers] are available to civilian display pilots. 360
degree level turns are not considered aerobatic maneuvers, no
matter how high the G forces during the sustained turn.

"This has been in effect for several years now; 8 years as best as
I can recall."

-------------------------

wrote:
It would have been an F-16. The Navy removed the 360 deg minimum
radius turn from its single ship performance demos years ago. They
replaced it with a figure 8 bow tie maneuver which keeps the flight
path vector from passing thru the crowd. WRR
Greg Arnold wrote:
Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:

Edwards about 3 years ago, and Pt. Mugu this past fall. Don't
remember what type of jet at Edwards. At Mugu it was either an F-16
or F-18, doing a high G turn towards the crowd.
Interesting. I think the Blues and the Thunderbirds have that as a well
standardized no-no.
I have never seen either of those demonstration teams turn toward the
crowd. It was only a lone jet doing high-G turns right in front of the
crowd.

I'm surprised that the FAA and various responsible
organizations have not enforced such restrictions as thoroughly as I
expected.
I presume that the FAA can't take away a military pilot's license, so
there may not be much that can be done, short of shutting down an airshow.

Every venue must have its own challenges WRT airspace and topography,
but still, we should know better by now.
Sooner or later, there will be a disaster.


Jack