Ramp Fees

On Aug 28, 6:07*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:



noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

* Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

* *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.


The other thing is that when you divert to the nearby class C at 1:00
am because your home airport fogged in, guess which FBO is going to be
the only one available to help you? You're not just paying for the
red carpet service, you're also paying for the availability at odd
hours when you might need it someday. I didn't begrudge them their
fees or even towing the airplaine to the far corner when that happened
to me, I was grateful to have a place that could get me a cab home,
including driving me over to the main terminal to pick up the cab.
That costs money to maintain.

"noname" wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" wrote:
snip
It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do it.
I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I understand
why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never charge any
fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.

FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking service
or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your aircraft and
othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.

There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

On Aug 28, 4:57*pm, "Mike" wrote:

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. *Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. *They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
was "reserved". *

I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
ready for it.

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.
At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
somewhere cool.


-Robert

It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.
"Mike" wrote in message
news6Ytk.34$jE1.14@trnddc03...
"noname" wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" wrote:
snip
It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do
it. I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I
understand why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never
charge any fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.

FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking
service or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your
aircraft and othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.

There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

"Clyde Woempner" wrote

It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.

Oh, you won't mind putting a check for $20 in the mail, and sending it to
him, would you?

It's only $20, after all.

The point is that he was made to pay, with no option to not pay _even if he
left_ without getting ANY service.
--
Jim in NC

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Aug 28, 4:57 pm, "Mike" wrote:

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you
like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and
I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and
it
was "reserved".

I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
ready for it.

I could care less if they want to stage my plane somewhere else. My
complaint is they will send a parking jockey and specifically park you in
the back 40 as soon as you taxi up, just so they can save the space up front
in case a Citation or G5 pulls up. Then I'm left carrying my bags clear
across the ramp as some larger airports with air carrier operations won't
let you drive a rental car out on the ramp to unload.

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.

I've had that experience also, but that's really a function of the rental
car company itself and not the FBO. I've had the same experience with
Signature. I've been to other FBOs where the rental car company will
actually just leave one or two of their cars at the airport and allow the
FBO to fill out the contract. So it really just depends on how agressive
those rental car companies are in seeking out GA business.

As far as courtesy cars go, I use them all the time when I'm just staying
long enough to go get lunch. A rental car isn't practical for that.

At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
somewhere cool.

That's just a function of location and can very easily work the other way
around if the big airport is downtown and there's a smaller one closer to
where you want to go.

On Aug 31, 5:19*am, "Mike" wrote:

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.

I've *had that experience also, but that's really a function of the rental
car company itself and not the FBO. *I've had the same experience with
Signature. *I've been to other FBOs where the rental car company will
actually just leave one or two of their cars at the airport and allow the
FBO to fill out the contract. *So it really just depends on how agressive
those rental car companies are in seeking out GA business.

Yes, it can happen at any FBO but the point is that if the car is
forgotten it can be had pretty quick when you are at the big int'l
airport. At the GA airport they have to drive a car out from the Int'l
airport. I just want to be close to where the cars are since I've had
problems in the past.

-robert