Fly Boy ?????

Remember the AC-130H that ditched off Kenya in 1993?

Existing procedure was to ditch, until after the accident investigation it
was found (duh!!) that the AC-130 with all the holes in the fuselage didn't
act like a trash hauler C-130 when it hit the water.

Emergency procedures for all AC-130 models was changed to eliminate
ditching, except if no other means of egress was possible. Bailout became
preferred method of emergency egress in the air.
--
Les
F-4C(WW),D,E,G(WW)/AC-130A/MC-130E EWO (ret)


"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Fly Boy ?????
From: "Gord Beaman"

I've done hundreds of ditching drills where we needed to get an
18 man crew out on the hangar floor carrying their proper items.
We could usually do it but remember that you're doing the testing
in a nice warm lighted hangar, not the middle of the North
Atlantic in a winter gale after the trauma of a night ditching...
--

-Gord.
.

I am not talking about drills in a hanger. I am yalking about one a day
in
Tampa Bay. And lives lost and lessons learned the hard way.
.
Arthur Kramer

Well of course you are Art...you say that you have 30 seconds
before the a/c sinks, that it's proven by tank testing. I'm
merely pointing out that that's not carved in stone, that it
depends on a lot of parameters. Which of course you know.

I do object to your handling of that post, you intimate that
while I talk of 'ditching drills' you talk of 'lives lost and
lessons learned'. What the hell does that mean?

Neither one of us has ditched therefore you are no more of an
expert than I am despite how you tried to make it sound.

So then you're just a 'wannabe' because 'you haven't been there
nor done that' as you're so fond of saying.

See how silly that sounds?
--

-Gord.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I think it is relevant.


You're free to think that, but it's still irrelevant.



If you had flown for one of the military services, a
lot of the things we're talking to you about would be things that you'd
experienced. Maybe it never occurred to you, never having experienced it,
that
military flight manuals are constantly being updated as new information
regarding the aircraft is received, either from the manufacturer or from
the
field.


Updated with new information from the field? How can that be? You've taken
the position that the manufacturer's theories trump actual experience from
the field.



I flew I don't remember how many different kinds of aircraft, and I knew
how to ditch every one of them, and I learned how best to do it from
constant
study of the flight manuals, which provided me with the most current data
available I needed in order to make good decisions.

I flew about 4,000 hours in my military career. I never ditched an
airplane,
never bailed out of one, and walked away from every landing without even a
slight limp. Those are my credentials. There are guys who frequent this
NG
with a helluva lot more than that, and they have my attention and respect.
I
doubt that you're one of them.


I think if you review your messages in this thread a few days from now
you'll see that you've taken a completely illogical position.

av8r wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

The next best thing to an F-16 and the most fun you can have with
your clothes on!

How many hours do you have on an F-16?

None (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...)

Seriously tho, this is what a former ANG pilot had to say about
trikes vis a vis F-16's (he's also flown ANG F-106's and prior to
that flew Navy A-7's off carriers).......

Q: So Jim how does flying a Trike compare to flying a Fighter
on the fun scale?

A: Equal, but different. Way different. I like all types of flying,
but they are all fun in different ways. Flying trikes is probably the
most natural sensation of flying like a bird, like you dream about,
of any form of powered flight I've ever experienced. Flying
fighters is like flying a Formula I race car with wings, except even
more physically punishing. There's nothing like being at 100'
and seeing the electrical line poles go by at 600 kts +, and there's
nothing like cruising along at 50 mph waving at people and
smelling the new cut hay and feeling like a puppy with your head
out of the car window. I'm happy to have had the opportunity to
experience both. I'd rate them both as 10's, but different forms
of fun. If I had to pick one to experience in life and couldn't do
the other, I'd pick fighters. Fortunately, I didn't have to pick just
one.

Cheers...Chris

You're welcome...Mike

"av8r" wrote in message
...
Hi George

Did you know any of the gang with the 54th ARSq. at Goose Air Base circa
1964?

Cheers...Chris

We sent one of our chopper pilots up there back around '59 when I was with the
46th ARSq at Otis. He thought it would be better than an assignment at Thule,
because what with Quiddividdy Village (sp?), he thought there might at least be
a place to buy souvenirs or get a beer! Not the brightest candle on our cake,
trading a 12 month separated tour at Thule for an 18 month separated tour at
Goose because of the amenities.

I can't think of his name at the moment, but he did finish a career in the AF
and retired as a Lt. Colonel, which none of us who knew him as a 2nd Lt. ever
thought was even vaguely possible. (^-^)))

George Z.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:09:03 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...

Of course the Navy did, but they used the information and design work of
Grumman.


So what? Until aircraft are actually ditched any information provided by
the builder on ditching is just theory. If aircraft always behaved as
predicted there'd be no reason for testing at all.

Shoot, if it behaved "as predicted" there would be no reason to ditch it :-)))

Al Minyard

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

I think it is relevant.


You're free to think that, but it's still irrelevant.



If you had flown for one of the military services, a
lot of the things we're talking to you about would be things that you'd
experienced. Maybe it never occurred to you, never having experienced it,
that
military flight manuals are constantly being updated as new information
regarding the aircraft is received, either from the manufacturer or from
the
field.


Updated with new information from the field? How can that be? ......

I don't imagine that you've ever heard of specific unit using certain aircraft
conducting certain kinds of field tests on their equipment. I could give you
examples of what I am talking about, but it would only serve to continue your
ongoing arguing about the subject. You disparage information from the
manufacturer, but you now are questioning the existence of pireps where you just
finished saying that they were the only reliable information available to the
aircrews. It would help if you made up your mind which source of information
for pilots you wish to endorse.

.....You've taken the position that the manufacturer's theories trump actual
experience from
the field.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort. I'm trying
to get across to you that the body of knowledge has input from more than one
source.





I flew I don't remember how many different kinds of aircraft, and I knew
how to ditch every one of them, and I learned how best to do it from
constant
study of the flight manuals, which provided me with the most current data
available I needed in order to make good decisions.

I flew about 4,000 hours in my military career. I never ditched an
airplane,
never bailed out of one, and walked away from every landing without even a
slight limp. Those are my credentials. There are guys who frequent this
NG
with a helluva lot more than that, and they have my attention and respect.
I
doubt that you're one of them.


I think if you review your messages in this thread a few days from now
you'll see that you've taken a completely illogical position.

Well, if you say so, but I don't see too many people here agreeing with you.

George Z.

None (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...)

Hi Mike

Now that was funny. Hope you got good A.O.P.A. rates. I've never sat
in(or on?) a trike before, let alone fly one. They are not very common
in this part of Ontario. Maybe it's something to do with the 60 below
zero temperatures and howling whiteouts. Say, I reckon they don't get
much snow down your way do they. For the longest time, I thumbed my
nose at ultralights and particularly microlights. I've had a 180 degree
turn of opinion.

I've flown a lot of types (I'm checked out on 9) of aircraft including
stick time on the old Canadair CP-107 Argus, but being strapped on to a
Challenger ultralight is incredible. You have interchangeable wings
(short and long) and you can fly it on wheels, skis of floats. It'll
land on a dime and give you back a nickel's change. Have you worked out
an hourly operating rate yet on your trike. I betcha it's only a few
bucks an hour at best. Are the insurance premiums very high

'Happy Flying'

Cheers...Chris

From: nt (Gordon)

outstanding post, Chris - exactly what I come to this newsgroup to read.

Thanks very much.


Chris Mark

"George Z. Bush" wrote:


"av8r" wrote in message
...
Hi George

Did you know any of the gang with the 54th ARSq. at Goose Air Base circa
1964?

Cheers...Chris

We sent one of our chopper pilots up there back around '59 when I was with the
46th ARSq at Otis. He thought it would be better than an assignment at Thule,
because what with Quiddividdy Village (sp?), he thought there might at least be
a place to buy souvenirs or get a beer! Not the brightest candle on our cake,
trading a 12 month separated tour at Thule for an 18 month separated tour at
Goose because of the amenities.

I can't think of his name at the moment, but he did finish a career in the AF
and retired as a Lt. Colonel, which none of us who knew him as a 2nd Lt. ever
thought was even vaguely possible. (^-^)))

George Z.



Pretty close George!...it's Quidi Vidi (pronounced kitty viddy)
--

-Gord.

Subject: Fly Boy ?????
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 10/24/03 2:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: t

I think it is relevant.


You're free to think that, but it's still irrelevant.

Irrelevant means no.