PHIL BOYER: 40% OF AOPA MEMBERS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASING THEIR FLYING DUE TO FUEL PRICES

wrote:

Where do you get cheap and easy light crude "Once the stuff in the ground
is gone"?


Don't expect an intelligent answer to your question.

kontiki wrote:

Then applying that logic to ethanol would make one wonder why we even
bother trying to turn corn into fuel. We increase food prices, produce
food shortages and end up with a product that takes as much energy to
produce as it provides as a fuel.


I think you're wrong about that. I think it takes more energy to produce
ethanol from corn than it provides as a fuel.

On 2008-06-25, kontiki wrote:
Dylan Smith wrote:

It's not just the quantity: it's the quality and the *rate* at which you
can turn it into something useful.

Then applying that logic to ethanol would make one wonder why we even
bother trying to turn corn into fuel.

It makes me wonder too - ethanol from corn is really a pretty bad way to
do it. All I can think is that it's not about energy, it's all about
subsidising farmers.

This becomes a problem when the *rate* of consumption goes ever upwards
- if the *rate* of extraction can't keep up, prices go up.

Duh... we are a growing economy... unless you prefer recession. Or...
how about depression? That you fulfill the desires of the elite.

Which is precisely my point; if we are to avoid recession or depression,
since economic expansion *depends* (at the moment) on an increase of
energy usage, exploiting unconventional oil sources *alone* will not
suffice because it won't provide sufficient *rate* regardless of
quantity. It needs something else too (not ethanol from corn) which is
going to require ingenuity.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Dylan Smith wrote:

Which is precisely my point; if we are to avoid recession or depression,
since economic expansion *depends* (at the moment) on an increase of
energy usage, exploiting unconventional oil sources *alone* will not
suffice because it won't provide sufficient *rate* regardless of
quantity. It needs something else too (not ethanol from corn) which is
going to require ingenuity.


Provide evidence that will back up your statements.

There is also a price stability benefit (a reduction in the volatility
that has pushed crude oil prices so high) of being energy independent in
terms of exploiting our own mineral resources... regardless of quantity.

When you depend upon raw material supplied from regions of the world
that are geopolitically unstable you tend to have volatile price
extremes and speculating. Any good business would realize that one way
to mitigate that is to avoid single sourced commodities. We as a counret
don't seem to have any business sense in that regard and it seesm now
that our cruse oil suppliers know it. Bush goes there hat in hand to
beg for lower prices and more production like a whiny kid and they
are laughing at how impotent the once great United States is. Its a joke.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:51:07 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
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On 2008-06-25, kontiki wrote:
There is also a price stability benefit (a reduction in the volatility
that has pushed crude oil prices so high) of being energy independent in
terms of exploiting our own mineral resources... regardless of quantity.

The oil will still be traded on the global market. The UK and Norway are
both net oil exporters, yet their oil consumers are still subject to the
same price fluctuations because they still have to buy at market price.

China tried price controls. It created massive shortages. Chinese demand
is expected to go *up* when price controls are relaxed despite the big
jump in prices it will bring - because all price controls did was to
crimp supply.

When you depend upon raw material supplied from regions of the world
that are geopolitically unstable you tend to have volatile price
extremes and speculating. Any good business would realize that one way
to mitigate that is to avoid single sourced commodities.

Your oil is *hardly* single sourced, and you import a lot more oil from
your direct neighbours (Canada and Mexico) than you do from the *entire*
Middle East and then some. Your domestic production alone is almost as
much as imports from *all* OPEC countries. The US imports more oil from
non-OPEC countries than it does from OPEC countries. Imports of over
100K bbl/day come from 18 different countries. Oil is single sourced?
Pull the other one, it has bells on.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Dylan Smith wrote:
Your oil is *hardly* single sourced, and you import a lot more oil from
your direct neighbours (Canada and Mexico) than you do from the *entire*
Middle East and then some. Your domestic production alone is almost as
much as imports from *all* OPEC countries. The US imports more oil from
non-OPEC countries than it does from OPEC countries. Imports of over
100K bbl/day come from 18 different countries. Oil is single sourced?
Pull the other one, it has bells on.


Many a company (by that I mean a business entity that is responsible for
making a profit Vs., deficits decade after decade and BSing the
shareholders into going along with their dumbassed schemes) has made
a stragetic decision to manufacture their own (insert important key part
of their product line here) rather than subject themselves to unstable
and/or fickle suppliers.

Those are usually the companies that are still in business by the way.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Skylune wrote in news:6a371136-db64-4cf5-a5a0-
:


Just damn. Does this mean that you will sell/abandon your fuel
guzzling airplane, and take the bus instead? The irony of private
pleasure pilots bemoaning high avgas prices while simultaneously
attacking Bush/Cheney as whackos who would take steps to increase
crude supply is fantastic!



Huh?


I think Bush and Cheney are idiots because they are. I'd also like gas to
be 25 cents a gallon, but it's not an either/or deal...


you missed the entire point of his post.

kontiki wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Skylune wrote in
news:6a371136-db64-4cf5-a5a0-
:


Just damn. Does this mean that you will sell/abandon your fuel
guzzling airplane, and take the bus instead? The irony of private
pleasure pilots bemoaning high avgas prices while simultaneously
attacking Bush/Cheney as whackos who would take steps to increase
crude supply is fantastic!



Huh?


I think Bush and Cheney are idiots because they are. I'd also like
gas to be 25 cents a gallon, but it's not an either/or deal...


you missed the entire point of his post.


No, you missed the entire point of my reply.


Bertie

on 6/22/2008 9:50 AM Larry Dighera said the following:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:38:18 -0500, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
The sources whose content I cite generally have a reputation for
presenting a balanced view, and I use them to bolster my arguments (or
to quantify yours in this case) in discussion.

You often copy and paste without understanding the material or even reading
it. Sometimes you've posted material which proved your position to be
incorrect.


Given the volume of my posts, errors are inevitable.

Boggle. You value quantity over quality, then? There's an obvious cure...