Bonanza (A36) Approach Speeds

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:04:35 -0500, john smith wrote:

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
Check with the ABS on this and a quick phone call should suffice. They
have some good advise.
They do say that *most* Bo pilots land far too fast. With 10 hours of
class room (ground school) they drilled into us we would NOT be
landing too fast.:-)) You should have heard the complaints when we
were informed we'd be calculating the approach and departure speeds
(for VFR) based on aircraft weights and flying those within a couple
MPH/knots.

That was nothing compared tot he complaining when we were told we'd be
doing full stalls and the instructor would be blocking the yoke to
prevent the use of the ailerons in the stall.:-))


What does that tell you about the quality of instruction prior to the
ABS course?

Out of 60 some only 3 of us had ever done full stalls in the Bo. Only
2 had done accelerated stalls and only one still practiced them. IIRC
less than 10 had current charts.

Roger (K8RI)

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:41:48 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:



That was nothing compared tot he complaining when we were told we'd be
doing full stalls and the instructor would be blocking the yoke to
prevent the use of the ailerons in the stall.:-))

The A36 I fly has the vortex generators installed. Stalls are gentle
and predictable, at Vso or clean.

I haven't staled the V tail yet -- apparently that break is a bit more
significant.

The Deb (basically the early 33) has a very abrupt break and wants to
roll left. Using the ailerons at that point will accelerate the roll
rather than stopping it, hence the instructors blocking the yokes.


You would need to screw up big time to stall-spin an A36.


Out of 60 some only 3 of us had ever done full stalls in the Bo. Only
2 had done accelerated stalls and only one still practiced them. IIRC
less than 10 had current charts.

Roger (K8RI)

Is practicing stalls as important as recognizing an imminent stall and
recovering prior to the full stall break?

The ASF/ABS seemed to think so in the Bo specific proficiency
training.
If you haven't joined the American Bonanza Society (ABS) it's well
worth the money and they have both excellent pilot proficiency and
aircraft Service Clinics. http://www.bonanza.org/
the Bo specific proficiency training usually takes a whole week end
with 10 hours of class room and 4 to 5 hours of flying and another 3
or so spent on physical systems. One session is good for one phase of
the wings program, a BFR, Instrument currency, and I think I'm missing
two other things it qualifies the pilot for. It's also something your
insurance company loves to see on your qualifications.

Roger (K8RI)

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:51:47 -0800 (PST), "F. Baum"
wrote:

On Dec 16, 10:37 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:

105 is what they had me flying the ILS in the Deb/F33 at Columbus.
As the foggles/break out did not come off until the MM (200 feet) the
reconfiguration was rather short and quick.

So you broke out at minimums and then configured for landing ? If I
were you I would find a different instructor next year.


That's the way I've always flown the ILS in actual when it's close to
minimums.
My instructor had me flying in actual so often that my first flight
after getting the rating was with most of my route near minimums as I
was comfortable with that. I'm nowhere near that competent at present,
nor would I fly with ceilings at least 200 above minimums now If I
could get out there.

As I haven't flown since last March I'm neither current or competent
as far as I'm concerned. I hope the fix the later some time in the
next couple of weeks.

Roger (K8RI)

FB

The 36/A36 front seats are a little in front of the fwd CG limit, in the
33/35 models all the seats are behind the fwd limit. Fuel is the only
weight you can add to the Bonanza to shift the CG forward and that means you
have to keep a minimum fuel as ballast since the CG moves aft as you burn
fuel. It is essential on all the Bonanza models to do a take-off and a
landing W&B. [A good idea in any airplane]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300
"Newps" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| The CG range on the A36 is very different from the 33/35 models.
Without
| passengers in the middle or rear, the CG is further fwd and the force
| required to flare is greater.
|
| The CG range is a little larger on the 36 but otherwise similar. With
| pax only in front of the 35 the CG is near forward limit, same as the 36.

The fuselage was repositioned on the 36 wing, by sectioning the cabin,
changing the cabin profile. You will see about 10 inches between the
firewall and a 36 wing root and almost none on a 33/35.

Early 35s have small engines and later models have the IO520/IO550 engines
and about 1,000 pounds more gross weight than the 1948 models.

Bonanzas have been modified so much that it is hard to make a general
statement, each airplane may have many STC changes in GW, engine, brakes,
anything that effects GW.



"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:10 -0700, Newps wrote:
|
|
|
| wrote:
|
| BUT -- 70 KIAS is not a power -off landing speed. There's insufficient
| energy to flare, so a bit of power is required to arrest the descent.
|
|
| What? Did the tail fall off? I have plenty of elevator at 70 kts, no
| power and a forward CG in a 35 Bo.
|
| It's not an elevator authority issue, but rather one of energy.
|
| Book figures for the 33 are ~ 80 knots (varies a bit from year to
| year) for a no power landing. It's 78 (90 MPH) for mine. Normal is 70
| (80 MPH) minus one mph for each 100# under gross. The POH states the
| power off landing is faster as there is not enough energy to safely
| flare at the normal power on landing speed.
|
| Depending on the year the 36 is slightly longer than the 35/33 to a
| fair amount longer (18" IIRC). CG covers a much wider range on the 36.
| As I recall the wing is the same with some minor differences in the
| tips, stall strips, and rivet patterns (flush and round head). OTOH
| they are not interchangeable. Early 33s had a number of variations in
| the tank arrangement(s). I've had mechanics swear the aux tanks on
| mine were after market as they are forward of the spar, but it came
| from the factory that way.
|
| The early 35s are considerably lighter than later 33s and 36s.
| Later 36s are heavy.
|
| Roger (K8RI)

If you haven't joined the American Bonanza Society (ABS) it's well
worth the money and they have both excellent pilot proficiency and
aircraft Service Clinics. http://www.bonanza.org/
the Bo specific proficiency training usually takes a whole week end
with 10 hours of class room and 4 to 5 hours of flying and another 3
or so spent on physical systems. One session is good for one phase of
the wings program, a BFR, Instrument currency, and I think I'm missing
two other things it qualifies the pilot for. It's also something your
insurance company loves to see on your qualifications.

Roger (K8RI)

ABS membership is on the way. I signed up for a trial membership a
couple of months ago and it seems worthwhile.

Once the CFII ticket is punched, I'll probably look to spend the next
bunch of $$ I don't have yet on the Bonanza training.

Dan

On 12/18/2007 6:45:56 PM, " wrote:

Besides,
I turn off electric trim as part of the pre-landing checklist.

Why do you do this?

(Curious since I own a V35B with electric trim that I exclusively.)

--
Peter

Roger (K8RI) wrote:


Book figures for the 33 are ~ 80 knots (varies a bit from year to
year) for a no power landing. It's 78 (90 MPH) for mine. Normal is 70
(80 MPH) minus one mph for each 100# under gross. The POH states the
power off landing is faster as there is not enough energy to safely
flare at the normal power on landing speed.


My book 50 foot speed is 68 MPH(59 KTS) at my typical landing weight.

On Dec 19, 12:34 pm, "Peter R." wrote:
On 12/18/2007 6:45:56 PM, " wrote:

Besides,
I turn off electric trim as part of the pre-landing checklist.

Why do you do this?

(Curious since I own a V35B with electric trim that I exclusively.)

--
Peter

Two Reasons:
#1: Runaway trim
#2: Prevents accidental/inadvertent autopilot activation


Dan