Cross Country the main focus of soaring?

I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring is cross country and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross country and surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country ( there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently). And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to 50 miles away but I have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske

mat Redsell wrote:

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

I don't think this will convince anybody, but in Europe, everybody takes
the club ships cross country. In many countries, you even need some
cross country experience to get your license. No way somebody could
become an instructor without thorough cross country experience.

In our club, the only pilots that stay near the airfield are the acro
pilots.

Stefan

Matt,

Our club (North Carolina Soaring Association, USA)
encourages club members to fly cross country. After
a member gets settled into flying the club's L-33 Solo
or HpH 304C, they start to venture out from home base.
They may fly with more experienced cross country pilots
or they may make the flight of more than one thermal
away from home on their own.

Our club has a Master Cross Country Instructor and
he has given classes in the art of venturing out on
Cross Country. Members have also taken advantage of
the cross country and competition fun-fly's offered
by the Blue Ridge Soaring Society in Virginia, USA.
They've taken the club's L-33 up there for these courses
and last year, one of our members won a day flying
the L-33. (The Blue Ridge Soaring Society is located
about a four to five hour drive away from the NCSA
field.)

A member who starts going cross country is encouraged
to have a trailer hitch installed on his car or make
arrangements for someone with a tow hitch to retrieve
him, if the need arrises.

But for the past three weekends or more, either passing
hurricanes or the broken towplane (due to normal wear
and tear and not the weather) have kept everyone grounded
:-(

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS-1d

Hi Mat,
interesting problem you have there. One point first,
parachutes DEFINITELY !!

My club here in the UK does not have much of a reputation for cross country.
This is a bit historic as the club has only been going 5 years or so and
only have K7's to play with and very little money to update the kit. We are
blessed though with a 20 mile ridge very close to the site, so long flights
are easily achieved with that.

Earlier this year I took the BGA's Cross Country Endorsement tests. Some of
this entails flying a motor glider on a 100 km triangle whilst map reading.
Having not gone XC I found it rather difficult to use the map this first
time, even though an ordnance survey map is like reading to me! To achieve
instructor level I have to complete this level and then the Silver, so no
one in the UK now gets to be an instructor without some XC experience.

One important down side on not going XC is that people generally get a bit
bored with "local" flights. This follows on over time and everyone gets
bored, then they go somewhere else or even out of the sport.

The costs and time factor are of course important for any club, but the
motivation to less experienced pilots of this sort of flying must be a major
benefit.

It would seem you have a difficult task moving the dinosaurs out of the
mud!!

Best of luck, Malcolm...

PS. On parachutes; Last year we got a K8 at the club, which I flew for the
first time one lovely day. It came with a wonderful seat which was better
than my arm chair at home, but no room for a parachute. My flight went to
cloud base at 6200' and after 45 mins I came down to give others a chance.
That evening I returned to find the "Soaring & Gliding" magazine had
arrived. I read first (as always) the accidents. There was a case of a K8
flying into an area for parachutists, and being hit in one wing. The pilot
died only because he didn't have a chute. I have never flown that or
another glider since without a parachute (save definitely winch/circuit
days)



"mat Redsell" wrote in message
news:0LE6d.36$lf2.15@trnddc09...
I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring is cross country
and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross country and
surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country ( there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently). And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to 50 miles away but I
have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske

It is sad, but easy to understand. 'If a dog is owned
in partnership, the dog will starve.' -- An old saying
that illustrates that every one wants someone else
to take responsibility. Club might not be insured.
The trailers might not be maintained. The license
plates for the trailers might not be up to date. The
members don't want the glider gone that long because
someone else wants a flight., etc.

We solved the problem, partially, by buying a PW-5
and encouraging its use for X/C with the normal time
limit of 1 hour excused for badge flights and X/C flights.
Another way is for 2-4 people to buy an old, cheap
glider together. It is not ideal, but at least you
can do the Silver and pursue Gold flights on occasion.
It is better to have a low performer and fly lots
than to have a super machine and be limited in the
amount of flying you can do.


Having instructors who do X/C is a must or it will
never really happen.

At 20:42 29 September 2004, Mat Redsell wrote:
I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages
cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring
is cross country and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport
then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and
many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested
bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields
or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross
country and surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country (
there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently).
And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for
both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for
the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go
cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that
if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to
50 miles away but I have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs
let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske

Mat.. we encourage cross country flying.. especially soon after a student
gets his rating.
We have a SGS 1-26 and an LS-4 for cross country, and a Grob 103 to teach
cross country. Our primary trainer is a 2-33.

The closest airport is 14nm away and on the other side of a 8000ft high
ridge line (ridge is about 5000ft above airport elevation) but we do have a
couple of dry lake beds in season about 5nm away.

First cross countries are encouraged to be Silver Distance in the clubs
1-26.

BT

"mat Redsell" wrote in message
news:0LE6d.36$lf2.15@trnddc09...
I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring is cross country
and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross country and
surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country ( there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently). And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to 50 miles away but I
have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat

Avenal encourages X-C, but then again it's nothing but flat
fields in all directions for the most part, and our gliders are
very cheap (all under $10k) so there is little financial risk.

Another club, BASA, has quite pricey gliders and lots of X-C,
but requires a minimum Private Glider license to fly the Pegasi or
1-34 or DG-1000 or Grob 103. And requires one maintain a 2/3
glide ratio to a known landable field for all flights.

If X-C isn't alowed in your club's ships, then maybe a
private sub-club with its own glider is in order.
If there's enough folks interested, then the demand is there, right?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Stefan wrote:
mat Redsell wrote:

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships
for short cross country runs?


I don't think this will convince anybody, but in Europe, everybody takes
the club ships cross country. In many countries, you even need some
cross country experience to get your license. No way somebody could
become an instructor without thorough cross country experience.

In our club, the only pilots that stay near the airfield are the acro
pilots.

Stefan

It is a requirement in South Africa - no silver C (at least one 50km XC) - no
instructor brevet. Very simple.

$0.02 from the Soaring Club of Houston--
We are in the flat coastal plains and the club doesn't have a history of
promoting XC--our instructor staff and club management attitude are much the
same as you describe.

What might be interesting to you is how we are CHANGING.

A sub-group within the club, led by an instructor w/XC experience and a lot
of energy, has been holding training classes and putting the trailers in
shape. Bronze Badge is the club requirement for XC flight and we're holding
Bronze Badge days to help members clear that hurdle. The training classes
have covered topics like Thermalling and XC decision making. They've taken
field trips driving around identifying the best land-out fields.

In general, club ships are reserved for 1:30 slots. Certificated Airmen
with Bronze Badge can reserve ships for up to a full day for XC flights and
badge work. They must also secure a retrieve crew in advance.
Club fleet is:
2 Blanik L-23's
1 Grob
1 Blanik L-33
1 Schwiezer 2-33
1 Lark (on lease-back to club)

Brent



"mat Redsell" wrote in message
news:0LE6d.36$lf2.15@trnddc09...
I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring is cross country
and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross country and
surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country ( there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently). And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to 50 miles away but I
have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske

Basically you can tell to your clu leader board that anyone in r.a.s thinks
that they are plain idiots and shall step down from club management. Banning
XC does not prevent accidents and glider loss, but it can kill local soaring
activity rather fast.

Regards,
Kaido



"mat Redsell" wrote in message
news:0LE6d.36$lf2.15@trnddc09...
I have been very concerned about our club, which discourages cross country
in club gliders. My thought is that purpose of soaring is cross country
and
if one just concentrates on flying above the airport then ones member ship
tends to end when you have your license.

We have many airports withing a 15 miles radius and many flat fields with
always an option of landing in cut hay fields, harvested bean and corn
fields etc. There is no lack of good landing fields or airports.

Our board is composed of pilots who do not go cross country and
surprisingly
none of the instructors have flown cross country ( there may be an
exception.... but none I know of have gone recently). And I am not allowed
to teach since I insist on wearing a parachute for both student and
instructor. ( I have in the past provided a chute for the student).

The thought at our club is that if you want to go cross country you buy
your own ship... a rasther harsh reality for many pilots.

I have found surprisingly ( tonque in cheek here) that if there is lift at
the airport we fly from there is usually lift 10 to 50 miles away but I
have
no way of convincing our board members.

Can anyone give me some ideas.... and do other clubs let their ships for
short cross country runs?

-mat
--
Marske Flying Wings
http://www.continuo.com/marske