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#1
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On 1/24/20 12:29 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 1/23/2020 6:17 PM: The nine px Alice prototype suffered a setback in Arizona as a fire on the ground damaged the plane significantly, ahead of planned taxi tests. https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...136327.article In other electrifying news, a U.K. company is working on another electric conversion of a small commuter airplane, this one featuring an innovative turbine powered generator tucked inside the fuselage to top up the batteries on those long flights.Â* So it will be powered by electricity, JET-A, and a $12 million government grant. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...tric-airliner/ Why are we talking about electric airplanes instead of electric sailplanes? Even stodgy Schleicher now has a really nice 18M electric self-launcher at at an interesting price. It should be very appealing to pilots that want a really good motorglider without the cost, operating complexity, and maintenance of the fossil fueled motorgliders. An the 15M GP15 also looks like a good choice: smaller, lighter, cheaper, but still very good gliding performance. The miniLak and Silent 2 FES gliders seem perfect for pilots looking for decent performance and freedom from the tow plane. So why are we talking about electric airplanes? Sure beats talking about phoney movies on ballooning in the 1860's, doesn't it? I see some great similarities between stuffing lithium-cobalt batteries in a glider and adding an electric motor, and doing the same with a power plane. They both suffer from limited battery capacity, safety concerns, significant cost, and charging hassles. Lots more work being done currently on power planes than gliders. When a Pipistrel Alpha Electro goes for a swim in a cold lake in Norway, it's hard to tell if that's a power plane or motorglider. I'm less impressed with the current crop of electric gliders than you are. Couple of friends got in the very first orders for GP-15's and have been waiting years for delivery. I keep seeing gliders certified for self-launch taking tows, because they can self-launch or self-retrieve, but not both. The gas-powered solutions aren't great, but IMHO better than the electrics, or heaven forbid the jets. -Dave |
#2
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
kinsell wrote on 1/24/2020 9:39 PM:
Why are we talking about electric airplanes instead of electric sailplanes? Even stodgy Schleicher now has a really nice 18M electric self-launcher at at an interesting price. It should be very appealing to pilots that want a really good motorglider without the cost, operating complexity, and maintenance of the fossil fueled motorgliders. An the 15M GP15 also looks like a good choice: smaller, lighter, cheaper, but still very good gliding performance. The miniLak and Silent 2 FES gliders seem perfect for pilots looking for decent performance and freedom from the tow plane. So why are we talking about electric airplanes?* Sure beats talking about phoney movies on ballooning in the 1860's, doesn't it? I see some great similarities between stuffing lithium-cobalt batteries in a glider and adding an electric motor, and doing the same with a power plane.* They both suffer from limited battery capacity, safety concerns, significant cost, and charging hassles.* Lots more work being done currently on power planes than gliders.* When a Pipistrel Alpha Electro goes for a swim in a cold lake in Norway, it's hard to tell if that's a power plane or motorglider. I'm less impressed with the current crop of electric gliders than you are.* Couple of friends got in the very first orders for GP-15's and have been waiting years for delivery.* I keep seeing gliders certified for self-launch taking tows, because they can self-launch or self-retrieve, but not both.* The gas-powered solutions aren't great, but IMHO better than the electrics, or heaven forbid the jets. I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore. Call the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
#3
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:21:06 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 1/24/2020 9:39 PM: Why are we talking about electric airplanes instead of electric sailplanes? Even stodgy Schleicher now has a really nice 18M electric self-launcher at at an interesting price. It should be very appealing to pilots that want a really good motorglider without the cost, operating complexity, and maintenance of the fossil fueled motorgliders. An the 15M GP15 also looks like a good choice: smaller, lighter, cheaper, but still very good gliding performance. The miniLak and Silent 2 FES gliders seem perfect for pilots looking for decent performance and freedom from the tow plane. So why are we talking about electric airplanes?Â* Sure beats talking about phoney movies on ballooning in the 1860's, doesn't it? I see some great similarities between stuffing lithium-cobalt batteries in a glider and adding an electric motor, and doing the same with a power plane.Â* They both suffer from limited battery capacity, safety concerns, significant cost, and charging hassles.Â* Lots more work being done currently on power planes than gliders.Â* When a Pipistrel Alpha Electro goes for a swim in a cold lake in Norway, it's hard to tell if that's a power plane or motorglider. I'm less impressed with the current crop of electric gliders than you are.Â* Couple of friends got in the very first orders for GP-15's and have been waiting years for delivery.Â* I keep seeing gliders certified for self-launch taking tows, because they can self-launch or self-retrieve, but not both.Â* The gas-powered solutions aren't great, but IMHO better than the electrics, or heaven forbid the jets. I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore.. Call the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested. |
#4
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 12:27:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:21:06 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote: kinsell wrote on 1/24/2020 9:39 PM: Why are we talking about electric airplanes instead of electric sailplanes? Even stodgy Schleicher now has a really nice 18M electric self-launcher at at an interesting price. It should be very appealing to pilots that want a really good motorglider without the cost, operating complexity, and maintenance of the fossil fueled motorgliders. An the 15M GP15 also looks like a good choice: smaller, lighter, cheaper, but still very good gliding performance. The miniLak and Silent 2 FES gliders seem perfect for pilots looking for decent performance and freedom from the tow plane. So why are we talking about electric airplanes?Â* Sure beats talking about phoney movies on ballooning in the 1860's, doesn't it? I see some great similarities between stuffing lithium-cobalt batteries in a glider and adding an electric motor, and doing the same with a power plane.Â* They both suffer from limited battery capacity, safety concerns, significant cost, and charging hassles.Â* Lots more work being done currently on power planes than gliders.Â* When a Pipistrel Alpha Electro goes for a swim in a cold lake in Norway, it's hard to tell if that's a power plane or motorglider. I'm less impressed with the current crop of electric gliders than you are.Â* Couple of friends got in the very first orders for GP-15's and have been waiting years for delivery.Â* I keep seeing gliders certified for self-launch taking tows, because they can self-launch or self-retrieve, but not both.Â* The gas-powered solutions aren't great, but IMHO better than the electrics, or heaven forbid the jets. I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore. Call the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested. I don't think you will find a self launcher for less than AS 34. |
#5
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 9:27:22 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:21:06 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote: kinsell wrote on 1/24/2020 9:39 PM: Why are we talking about electric airplanes instead of electric sailplanes? Even stodgy Schleicher now has a really nice 18M electric self-launcher at at an interesting price. It should be very appealing to pilots that want a really good motorglider without the cost, operating complexity, and maintenance of the fossil fueled motorgliders. An the 15M GP15 also looks like a good choice: smaller, lighter, cheaper, but still very good gliding performance. The miniLak and Silent 2 FES gliders seem perfect for pilots looking for decent performance and freedom from the tow plane. So why are we talking about electric airplanes?Â* Sure beats talking about phoney movies on ballooning in the 1860's, doesn't it? I see some great similarities between stuffing lithium-cobalt batteries in a glider and adding an electric motor, and doing the same with a power plane.Â* They both suffer from limited battery capacity, safety concerns, significant cost, and charging hassles.Â* Lots more work being done currently on power planes than gliders.Â* When a Pipistrel Alpha Electro goes for a swim in a cold lake in Norway, it's hard to tell if that's a power plane or motorglider. I'm less impressed with the current crop of electric gliders than you are.Â* Couple of friends got in the very first orders for GP-15's and have been waiting years for delivery.Â* I keep seeing gliders certified for self-launch taking tows, because they can self-launch or self-retrieve, but not both.Â* The gas-powered solutions aren't great, but IMHO better than the electrics, or heaven forbid the jets. I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore. Call the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested. It might be more interesting, and with an ultimately larger market, to sell an electric retrofit for the AS self launchers. The engineering and installation should be relatively simple. If my Wankel seizes I'd be tempted to do that, rather than replace it at great cost. |
#6
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
If you step by the SSA convention you will see one
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#7
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
...an electric retrofit for the AS self launchers. The engineering and installation should be relatively simple. Um, not on this planet. |
#8
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
The engineering and installation should be relatively simple.
Um, not on this planet. "Designing an airplane is easy, if you don't know how." |
#9
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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??
On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 7:04:36 PM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote: ...an electric retrofit for the AS self launchers. The engineering and installation should be relatively simple. Um, not on this planet. Perhaps you did not catch the "relatively"? Engine bay is already there, the doors are there, it is engineered and built for the weight, the extraction mechanism is already there, even the prop and boom. So yes, "relatively simple" compared to retrofitting say an ASW27, which is being done, and has none of those things. I am not a stranger to complexity, or aircraft design. |
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