Survival Rifle

Dana M. Hague wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:59:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself....last night I stumbled upon what
may be a suitable substitute: A black-powder pistol. (!??)

There are some pretty significant disadvantages as well. Reloading
takes time, bad weather can be a problem (the old expression "keep
your powder dry" isn't just an expression), and the knockdown/stopping
power is considerably less than a modern weapon. Then there's the
risk of chain fires if you don't slob grease over the loads.

That only holds for revolvers, not single shots. One thing many
people miss is that moisture can get into the chamber(s) from
condensation. For best reliability the firearm needs to be reloaded
every day. Gunfighters did this for that reason.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Monk wrote:
I was just in Dick's Sporting goods the other day and they are having
a special on a youth break action single shot .22 with an additional .
410 or 20ga. barrel for only $89.

I'm getting one for my little daughter for Christmas.

Monk

That's a killer deal. It's too bad there isn't a Dick's Sporting goods
here in the Portland, Or area. With a .22 rim fire and a 20 gage you
could hunt all sized game you would run across when stuck out in the
middle of nowhere.

Tony

On Nov 26, 5:59*pm, " wrote:
Those of you familiar with my Blog have probably read the several
articles therein about survival. *And yes, I've poked a bit of fun at
those who think survival can be measured by the size of your knife.
But an on-going thread, bounced around amongst a few of use keeps
coming back to the little survival rifle/shotgun (called a 'drilling'
in gunsmith-speak) the Air Force included in their comprehensive
survival pack. *As best I can recall this was a .22 *Hornet rifle / .
410 shotgun that folded up. *Ammunition was carried in the stock,
which was all aluminum.

The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself.

There are civilian versions of such over & under weapons but they are
heavy and tend to be expensive. *But last night I stumbled upon what
may be a suitable substitute: *A black-powder pistol. *(!??)

A cap & ball pistol, typically a replica (the real thing, in good
condition, is worth thousands of dollars) is inexpensive and not very
heavy. *It's also not very accurate :-) *...but hear me out before
condemning the idea.

With black-powder you pour a measured amount of powder into one of the
six chambers then insert a wad of some sort, atop which you place a
round ball, a cone shaped bullet OR A MEASURED AMOUNT OF BIRDSHOT.
Another wad is installed atop the bullet and the charge is compressed
using the lever built-in to the underside of the barrel. *A percussion
cap is then installed on the nipple and you go on to the next chamber.

There are a couple of features not generally known to those who do NOT
regularly fire black-powder weapons... especially cap & ball *...that
makes this idea worthy of thought. *One is that when we do away with
the cartridge case -- the brass part of the 'bullet' -- the weight &
cube of our ammunition. *Fifty rounds for a black-powder weapon weighs
but a fraction of 50 rounds for a regular pistol. *And since the ammo
is not made-up it does not have a prescribed shape. *This allows you
to store the bullets, powder and caps in whatever space is most
convenient. *Another factor is that you'll probably find shot to be
more useful than ball... yet you'll still want to keep one or two
chambers charged with ball. *This presents no problem. *The other four
chambers may be charged with shot, fired, then charged again, leaving
the chambers charged with ball (or with a conical bullet) undisturbed,
giving you one or two 'insurance' shots to protect yourself from the
ravages of an enraged porcupine or ptarmigan.

Firing shotgun pellets through a rifled bore does neither the bore nor
the pellets any good but given the purpose of this weapon the
traditional arguments against this kind of use have no basis.

Just a thot. *Outside the box.

-R.S.Hoover
Just as a practical exercise in creative thinking Bob’s posting is
novel. However, it is also correct when taken in the context of using
a replica Army/Navy Colt or Remington black powder revolver as a
“foraging gun”. Either a .36 or .44 caliber will do that as well as
shoot a shot load. Means of “keeping your powder dry” as well as
substitutes for black powder are commonly used so such a revolver in a
full flap holster is doable to my thinking. Beside’s few forms of
shooting are more fun then cap ‘n ball, especially when you see how
accurate they are. Enjoy.

wrote:
Those of you familiar with my Blog have probably read the several
articles therein about survival. And yes, I've poked a bit of fun at
those who think survival can be measured by the size of your knife.
But an on-going thread, bounced around amongst a few of use keeps
coming back to the little survival rifle/shotgun (called a 'drilling'
in gunsmith-speak) the Air Force included in their comprehensive
survival pack. As best I can recall this was a .22 Hornet rifle / .
410 shotgun that folded up. Ammunition was carried in the stock,
which was all aluminum.

The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself.

There are civilian versions of such over & under weapons but they are
heavy and tend to be expensive. But last night I stumbled upon what
may be a suitable substitute: A black-powder pistol. (!??)

A cap & ball pistol, typically a replica (the real thing, in good
condition, is worth thousands of dollars) is inexpensive and not very
heavy. It's also not very accurate :-) ...but hear me out before
condemning the idea.

With black-powder you pour a measured amount of powder into one of the
six chambers then insert a wad of some sort, atop which you place a
round ball, a cone shaped bullet OR A MEASURED AMOUNT OF BIRDSHOT.
Another wad is installed atop the bullet and the charge is compressed
using the lever built-in to the underside of the barrel. A percussion
cap is then installed on the nipple and you go on to the next chamber.

There are a couple of features not generally known to those who do NOT
regularly fire black-powder weapons... especially cap & ball ...that
makes this idea worthy of thought. One is that when we do away with
the cartridge case -- the brass part of the 'bullet' -- the weight &
cube of our ammunition. Fifty rounds for a black-powder weapon weighs
but a fraction of 50 rounds for a regular pistol. And since the ammo
is not made-up it does not have a prescribed shape. This allows you
to store the bullets, powder and caps in whatever space is most
convenient. Another factor is that you'll probably find shot to be
more useful than ball... yet you'll still want to keep one or two
chambers charged with ball. This presents no problem. The other four
chambers may be charged with shot, fired, then charged again, leaving
the chambers charged with ball (or with a conical bullet) undisturbed,
giving you one or two 'insurance' shots to protect yourself from the
ravages of an enraged porcupine or ptarmigan.

Firing shotgun pellets through a rifled bore does neither the bore nor
the pellets any good but given the purpose of this weapon the
traditional arguments against this kind of use have no basis.

Just a thot. Outside the box.

-R.S.Hoover


The old AR-7 in .22 LR, now made by Henry, is a good choice. Mine is
a Carter Arms. It disassembled and stores in its own stock, will float
and is inexpensive by today's standards.

This is one of those "my Ford is better than your Chevy" eternal
arguments as to the best single firearm. I suggest a little research
into what you are likely to use it for in the area in which you will be
flying. You never know, maybe a .410 with an assortment of shot and slug
shells may be the best bet.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

While I have great admiration for black-powder arms, there's another
factor that has to be considered regarding carrying a weapon in an
aircraft for use in a survival situation: You may have injuries to an
arm or hand.

The black-powder arm will require that the survivor manipulate canned
powder, loose balls/shot, patches, percussion caps, grease, ramrods,
etc. to prepare the weapon for ONE shot. A complex job, much more
difficult if the user is crippled.

I just pulled my Grandma's 1906 Winchester pump-action 22LR rifle down
from the wall. I jammed the stock between my legs, twisted the magazine
tube open, slid the pushrod partially out, simulated loading five rounds
into the slot, slid the tube down, locked it, and pumped the slide to
load it.

All one-handed, in little more time than it takes to describe it. I'm
certainly no expert, either...I haven't fired a weapon in twenty years,
and I've never as much as worked the action on Grandma's rifle in the 15
years I've owned it. I had to look it over...one handed... to figure
out how to load it in the first place!

I seriously respect those who hunt with muzzle-loading weapons, but a
survival situation isn't the same as a sporting one.

Ron Wanttaja

Copperhead wrote:
On Nov 26, 5:59 pm, " wrote:
Those of you familiar with my Blog have probably read the several
articles therein about survival. And yes, I've poked a bit of fun at
those who think survival can be measured by the size of your knife.
But an on-going thread, bounced around amongst a few of use keeps
coming back to the little survival rifle/shotgun (called a 'drilling'
in gunsmith-speak) the Air Force included in their comprehensive
survival pack. As best I can recall this was a .22 Hornet rifle / .
410 shotgun that folded up. Ammunition was carried in the stock,
which was all aluminum.

The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself.

There are civilian versions of such over & under weapons but they are
heavy and tend to be expensive. But last night I stumbled upon what
may be a suitable substitute: A black-powder pistol. (!??)

A cap & ball pistol, typically a replica (the real thing, in good
condition, is worth thousands of dollars) is inexpensive and not very
heavy. It's also not very accurate :-) ...but hear me out before
condemning the idea.

With black-powder you pour a measured amount of powder into one of the
six chambers then insert a wad of some sort, atop which you place a
round ball, a cone shaped bullet OR A MEASURED AMOUNT OF BIRDSHOT.
Another wad is installed atop the bullet and the charge is compressed
using the lever built-in to the underside of the barrel. A percussion
cap is then installed on the nipple and you go on to the next chamber.

There are a couple of features not generally known to those who do NOT
regularly fire black-powder weapons... especially cap & ball ...that
makes this idea worthy of thought. One is that when we do away with
the cartridge case -- the brass part of the 'bullet' -- the weight &
cube of our ammunition. Fifty rounds for a black-powder weapon weighs
but a fraction of 50 rounds for a regular pistol. And since the ammo
is not made-up it does not have a prescribed shape. This allows you
to store the bullets, powder and caps in whatever space is most
convenient. Another factor is that you'll probably find shot to be
more useful than ball... yet you'll still want to keep one or two
chambers charged with ball. This presents no problem. The other four
chambers may be charged with shot, fired, then charged again, leaving
the chambers charged with ball (or with a conical bullet) undisturbed,
giving you one or two 'insurance' shots to protect yourself from the
ravages of an enraged porcupine or ptarmigan.

Firing shotgun pellets through a rifled bore does neither the bore nor
the pellets any good but given the purpose of this weapon the
traditional arguments against this kind of use have no basis.

Just a thot. Outside the box.

-R.S.Hoover
Just as a practical exercise in creative thinking Bob’s posting is
novel. However, it is also correct when taken in the context of using
a replica Army/Navy Colt or Remington black powder revolver as a
“foraging gun”. Either a .36 or .44 caliber will do that as well as
shoot a shot load. Means of “keeping your powder dry” as well as
substitutes for black powder are commonly used so such a revolver in a
full flap holster is doable to my thinking. Beside’s few forms of
shooting are more fun then cap ‘n ball, especially when you see how
accurate they are. Enjoy.


One rainy day I was shooting a 6 shot cap and ball revolver at a
range. There was no wind and the smoke obscured the target by the sixth
shot. 30 minutes later I still couldn't see the target. The smoke
declined my request to vacate the area. Not a good thing in a survival
situation.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

" wrote:
The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself.

Just make sure the weapon is edible. If it isn't, can't see the value.
Substitute some cans of beans or spam and now you've got both food _and_
weapons. :-)

Before the rifle, before the spam, even before the first aid kit, Water.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:59:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Those of you familiar with my Blog have probably read the several
articles therein about survival. And yes, I've poked a bit of fun at
those who think survival can be measured by the size of your knife.
But an on-going thread, bounced around amongst a few of use keeps
coming back to the little survival rifle/shotgun (called a 'drilling'
in gunsmith-speak) the Air Force included in their comprehensive
survival pack. As best I can recall this was a .22 Hornet rifle / .
410 shotgun that folded up. Ammunition was carried in the stock,
which was all aluminum.

The purpose of such a weapon was not defense but a means of feeding
yourself.

my personal choice for such a survival rifle would be the Marlin 925R
..22 long rifle and winchester hollow point bullets.

the microgroove rifle is *very* accurate and repeatable.
the resin stock cant be affected by rain.
the winchesters hit with a thump and stop rabbits dead.

all in all an almost totally weather proof style of rifle.
Stealth Pilot

"Stealth Pilot" wrote

my personal choice for such a survival rifle would be the Marlin 925R
.22 long rifle and winchester hollow point bullets.

the microgroove rifle is *very* accurate and repeatable.
the resin stock cant be affected by rain.
the winchesters hit with a thump and stop rabbits dead.

Good for stopping angry jack-alopes, too, right?

http://users.stargate.net/~mnovak/jackalopes/pics/lope19.gif

:-))
--
Jim in NC