If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
"Peter Skelton" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "William Black" wrote: The operative word here is CRIMINAL... You don't go to war against criminals, you arrest them and put them on trial, and if found guilty you punish them... I wonder whether the difference between a criminal conspiracy that gets the law and one that gets war isn't mostly size. Which rules they get after capture seems to be something of a political decision. (Certainly the navy was needed to deal with pirate bases at times in the past.) And the militia was called out at Peter's Fields in Manchester, and the US Army was used against the Bonus Marchers and the modern RN seems to operate against drug smugglers with some success.. The military is often called out to aid the civil power. Pirates were hanged at execution dock, but they were tried before a civilian court. However arresting them was often a bloody business, it doesn't stop them being criminals, and, probably more to the point, it didn't stop ship's captains holding 'Letters of Marque' being treated as prisoners of war. -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"William Black" wrote in message ... "Michael P. Reed" wrote in message ... In message , "William Black" wrote: The rules were changed to stop people like the Nazis shooting resistance fighters out of hand. Now if the polkadot head dress was a distinctive one... Hmmm, would one have to treat S.P.E.C.T.R.E under the rules and laws of war? They *were* uniformed, but in an otherwise stateless "army." Al Qaeda basically being the same. In a way, "land" pirates. Same way you treat pirates or any other criminal conspiracy that wear a uniform (Hell Angles seem to fit as well) The operative word here is CRIMINAL... You don't go to war against criminals, you arrest them and put them on trial, and if found guilty you punish them... Countries have gone to war against pirates, and the punishment was normally hanging from the highest Yard-arm. Jim |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:25:20 +0000 (UTC), "William Black"
wrote: "Peter Skelton" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "William Black" wrote: The operative word here is CRIMINAL... You don't go to war against criminals, you arrest them and put them on trial, and if found guilty you punish them... I wonder whether the difference between a criminal conspiracy that gets the law and one that gets war isn't mostly size. Which rules they get after capture seems to be something of a political decision. (Certainly the navy was needed to deal with pirate bases at times in the past.) And the militia was called out at Peter's Fields in Manchester, and the US Army was used against the Bonus Marchers and the modern RN seems to operate against drug smugglers with some success.. In other words, big problems get the military, we're together so far. The military is often called out to aid the civil power. Pirates were hanged at execution dock, but they were tried before a civilian court. Or an Admiralty court, depending IRRC. However arresting them was often a bloody business, it doesn't stop them being criminals, and, probably more to the point, it didn't stop ship's captains holding 'Letters of Marque' being treated as prisoners of war. Or as pirates, also depending on the political situation. It's a little hard to think of Hitler and his gang of merry assasins, murderers, theives, & rapists as anything but a criminal conspiracy though and they got war. Then there are revolutionaries. The founding fathers might have been thought of as a criminal conspiracy, except that they won. Many failed revolutionaries have been, but the American Confederacy was not. Other lovely people like our fiends AQ who aren't really a country, although they control terrotory and have political agendas. The situations don't really fit the laws exactly. In many cases, laws, in the broad sense of the word, are written to deal with the situations. ____ Peter Skelton |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim" wrote in message ...
You're just another right wing hypocrite asshole. As opposed to a Left wing nut. Yes. (Dumber than a doorknob, too.) Jim |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim" wrote in message ...
You mean the Supreme Court that turned the 14th amendment on its head (their reasoning was that my neighbor's vote shouldn't be counted because it "dilutes" my vote -- well, yes, as it should in a democracy) in order to select George Bush as president? No I am talking about the Supream court that stoped the Fla Supream court from changing the rules after the election when there boy lost. I'll let the internal evidence speak for itself as to which of us is more likely to have this right. I will also note severial liberial news agencies (NY times,CNN etc) counted the chads and it was a non-issue as even counting the chads Gore still lost Fla. Not true; see, for instance http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~k...h/ballots.html http://slate.msn.com/id/2058603 It's curious that people continue to call the New York Times "liberal" when it did everything it could to get Bush elected, and then misrepresented the facts to claim that he won legitimately when he didn't. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim" wrote in message ...
You're just another right wing hypocrite asshole. As opposed to a Left wing nut. Yes. (Dumber than a doorknob, too.) Jim |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim" wrote in message ... "William Black" wrote in message ... You don't go to war against criminals, you arrest them and put them on trial, and if found guilty you punish them... Countries have gone to war against pirates, and the punishment was normally hanging from the highest Yard-arm. I think there's usually a trial somewhere in there. -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:56:35 +0000 (UTC), "William Black"
wrote: "Peter Skelton" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:25:20 +0000 (UTC), "William Black" wrote: It's a little hard to think of Hitler and his gang of merry assasins, murderers, theives, & rapists as anything but a criminal conspiracy though and they got war. That's true, however they were also the legal government of Germany, repugnant as the idea is... The world is not tidy. Then there are revolutionaries. The founding fathers might have been thought of as a criminal conspiracy, except that they won. 'Treason cannot prosper, for with prosperity it ceases to be treason'. Precisely If the Taliban had thrashed the US out of sight they'd be taking their seat in the UN right now. Nobody seriously wants South Vietnam back either... With victory comes legitimacy True, the PLO is well on its way. Many failed revolutionaries have been, but the American Confederacy was not. I'm not aware that the leaders of the Confederacy were ever put on trial, and I'll bet someone somewhere considered it. Certainly, and a politican decision was made not to. However, civil wars are odd. Other lovely people like our fiends AQ who aren't really a country, although they control terrotory and have political agendas. They don't control territory any more than any 'non-governmental organisation' does. The government doesn't have the right of entry onto your property either The government may not have the right, but they do have the ability. People hold property at the governments pleasure (they govern at the people's, so that's fair...) At one point AQ ceontrolled areas whatever the government wanted. There have been large areas in other countries where other organizations have had The situations don't really fit the laws exactly. In many cases, laws, in the broad sense of the word, are written to deal with the situations. That's also true. However there's no doubt in my mind that the attack on the twin towers was a criminal, act and not an act of war. Agreed. I hope I didn't iomply differently. In the long run, controlling these extra-governmental organizations and badly behaved governments may require extending the rule of law to cover them. Treating these criminals as soldiers gives them a dignity they do not deserve and legitimises them to an extent that is frightening. If you are talking about the perpetrators on 9-11, I agree. There's a fairly lengthy liast of others too. ____ Peter Skelton |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
-- And by the way, Mr. Speaker, The Second Amendment is not for killing ducks and leaving Huey and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting politicians like in Grozney and in 1776, when they take your independence away". Robert K. Dornen, U.S. Congressman. 1995 "William Black" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message ... "William Black" wrote in message ... You don't go to war against criminals, you arrest them and put them on trial, and if found guilty you punish them... Countries have gone to war against pirates, and the punishment was normally hanging from the highest Yard-arm. I think there's usually a trial somewhere in there. Was there a trail when they were firing broadsides as well... Was there a trail when the marines stormed Tripoli? Jim |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Jim" wrote in message ... I think there's usually a trial somewhere in there. Was there a trail when they were firing broadsides as well... Was there a trail when the marines stormed Tripoli? Leroy! That boy's using your computer again... -- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Cessna 150 Child Seat Wanted | MRQB | Aviation Marketplace | 0 | April 8th 04 05:17 AM |
You are a child of the universe. | Abu | Home Built | 0 | February 6th 04 11:59 PM |
FS: Child headsets from Sigtronics | Kevin Chandler | Instrument Flight Rules | 3 | September 5th 03 02:41 PM |
YANK CHILD ABUSERS :: another reason to kill americans abroad ??? | suckthis.com | Naval Aviation | 12 | August 7th 03 06:56 AM |