Any opinions about this book about F-8s in Vietnam?

Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio. It was a Navy F-4 that shot down
the first MIG and no F-8 guy ever achieved "ACE" status. Having posted that
fact I must admit that most of us who flew the F-4 are not particularly fond
of Randy "Airhead" Cunningham.

And always remember, never forget, it was T.R. Swartz that shot down a MIG
with an unguided 5" Zuni rocket while flying an A-4. Oh by the way, T.R.
was a Demon Driver (although he is loathe to admit it!). If you don't know
T.R. then you have never met a figher pilot.

John


"Mike Potter" wrote in message
...
Has anyone looked at Osprey Publishing's book _F-8 Crusader Units of the
Vietnam War_? Is it worth buying?

The marketing description from

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...ser=COM&per=36
reads:

F-8 Crusader Units of the Vietnam War

US Price: $19.95
UK Price: £12.99

About this book
Known to its pilots as the 'last of the gunfighters' due to its quartet
of Colt-Browning Mk 12 20 mm cannon, the F-8 Crusader was numerically
the most populous fighter in the US Navy at the start of America's
involvement in the Vietnam conflict in 1964 – some 482 F-8C/D/Es
equipped 17 frontline units. It enjoyed great success against North
Vietnamese Mig-17s and Mig-21s during the Rolling Thunder campaign of
1965-68, officially downing 18 jets, which represented 53 per cent of
all Mig claims lodged by Navy squadrons during this period.

Contents
# First Engagement
# Setting Things Up
# Making a War
# Action in the Tonkin Gulf
# War Begins in Ernest
# MiG Killers
# Assessing the Enemy
# Beyond the MiGs
# 'Leatherneck' Crusaders, 1965-68
# Final Word

From: Mike Potter
Date: 7/13/2003 18:42 Pacific Daylight Time

Has anyone looked at Osprey Publishing's book _F-8 Crusader Units of the
Vietnam War_?

Yes

Is it worth buying?

In a word, yes. Mersky normally does good work. Didn't spot anything to bitch
about in this attempt. Now, if you've got tons of other books on the F-8, then
it might not be what you need.

MW
-------------------------------------
"As soon as movement begins, so does the fog of war" - Edward N. Luttwak

"John Randolph" wrote in message
news:%9oQa.6731$u51.954@fed1read05...
Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio. It was a Navy F-4 that shot
down
the first MIG and no F-8 guy ever achieved "ACE" status. Having posted
that
fact I must admit that most of us who flew the F-4 are not particularly
fond
of Randy "Airhead" Cunningham.

I'm not particularly fond of him as a congressman. Why are you not fond of
him as an F-4 pilot?



And always remember, never forget, it was T.R. Swartz that shot down a MIG
with an unguided 5" Zuni rocket while flying an A-4. Oh by the way, T.R.
was a Demon Driver (although he is loathe to admit it!). If you don't know
T.R. then you have never met a figher pilot.

John


"Mike Potter" wrote in message
...
Has anyone looked at Osprey Publishing's book _F-8 Crusader Units of the
Vietnam War_? Is it worth buying?

The marketing description from


http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...ser=COM&per=36
reads:

F-8 Crusader Units of the Vietnam War

US Price: $19.95
UK Price: £12.99

About this book
Known to its pilots as the 'last of the gunfighters' due to its quartet
of Colt-Browning Mk 12 20 mm cannon, the F-8 Crusader was numerically
the most populous fighter in the US Navy at the start of America's
involvement in the Vietnam conflict in 1964 - some 482 F-8C/D/Es
equipped 17 frontline units. It enjoyed great success against North
Vietnamese Mig-17s and Mig-21s during the Rolling Thunder campaign of
1965-68, officially downing 18 jets, which represented 53 per cent of
all Mig claims lodged by Navy squadrons during this period.

Contents
# First Engagement
# Setting Things Up
# Making a War
# Action in the Tonkin Gulf
# War Begins in Ernest
# MiG Killers
# Assessing the Enemy
# Beyond the MiGs
# 'Leatherneck' Crusaders, 1965-68
# Final Word

Was the higher kill ratio due to the GIB, or in spite of him?

And then, there was the "Jets Are for Kids" real gunfight:

http://skyraider.org/skyassn/sartape...ll/migkill.htm

Rick

--
My real e-mail address is:




"John Randolph" wrote in message
news:%9oQa.6731$u51.954@fed1read05...
Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio. It was a Navy F-4 that shot
down
the first MIG and no F-8 guy ever achieved "ACE" status. Having posted
that
fact I must admit that most of us who flew the F-4 are not particularly
fond
of Randy "Airhead" Cunningham.

And always remember, never forget, it was T.R. Swartz that shot down a MIG
with an unguided 5" Zuni rocket while flying an A-4. Oh by the way, T.R.
was a Demon Driver (although he is loathe to admit it!). If you don't know
T.R. then you have never met a figher pilot.

John


"Mike Potter" wrote in message
...
Has anyone looked at Osprey Publishing's book _F-8 Crusader Units of the
Vietnam War_? Is it worth buying?

The marketing description from


http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...ser=COM&per=36
reads:

F-8 Crusader Units of the Vietnam War

US Price: $19.95
UK Price: £12.99

About this book
Known to its pilots as the 'last of the gunfighters' due to its quartet
of Colt-Browning Mk 12 20 mm cannon, the F-8 Crusader was numerically
the most populous fighter in the US Navy at the start of America's
involvement in the Vietnam conflict in 1964 - some 482 F-8C/D/Es
equipped 17 frontline units. It enjoyed great success against North
Vietnamese Mig-17s and Mig-21s during the Rolling Thunder campaign of
1965-68, officially downing 18 jets, which represented 53 per cent of
all Mig claims lodged by Navy squadrons during this period.

Contents
# First Engagement
# Setting Things Up
# Making a War
# Action in the Tonkin Gulf
# War Begins in Ernest
# MiG Killers
# Assessing the Enemy
# Beyond the MiGs
# 'Leatherneck' Crusaders, 1965-68
# Final Word

John Randolph wrote:

Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio.

Er, no. F-8, 6:1 (18:3). Navy F-4, 5.42:1 (38:7), mainly due to the 1972-73
sprint by Top Gun trained crews. Of course, these are our numbers, and probably
include some overclaims as well as leave out some losses to MiGs that were
attributed to other threats or unknown causes.

Guy

Hmm... Your numbers are suspect. I'm off now to get mine. In the meantime
please verify.

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Randolph wrote:

Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio.

Er, no. F-8, 6:1 (18:3). Navy F-4, 5.42:1 (38:7), mainly due to the
1972-73
sprint by Top Gun trained crews. Of course, these are our numbers, and
probably
include some overclaims as well as leave out some losses to MiGs that were
attributed to other threats or unknown causes.

Guy

Further research shows that the total (USAF + USN) MIG kill ration was 4:1.
Probably due to the fact that the F-8s were phased out midway through the
conflict.

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
John Randolph wrote:

Actually, the F-4 had a higher kill ratio.

Er, no. F-8, 6:1 (18:3). Navy F-4, 5.42:1 (38:7), mainly due to the
1972-73
sprint by Top Gun trained crews. Of course, these are our numbers, and
probably
include some overclaims as well as leave out some losses to MiGs that were
attributed to other threats or unknown causes.

Guy

John Randolph wrote:

Hmm... Your numbers are suspect. I'm off now to get mine. In the meantime
please verify.

Taken from Nicholls' and Tillman's "On Yankee Station," the nearest concise
source to hand. Nicholls probably got the numbers from the U.S.N.'s "Southeast
Asia Statisical Summary." I could also dig them out of "Clashes" or "and Kill
MiGs", but the results would be identical or nearly so.

Guy

John Randolph wrote:

Further research shows that the total (USAF + USN) MIG kill ration was 4:1.
Probably due to the fact that the F-8s were phased out midway through the
conflict.

Not phased out, just reduced opportunities. The F-8s continued to fly from
SCB-27Cs until the end. BTW, USAF F-4 kill ratio for the war as a whole was
3.07:1 (107.5:35).

Guy

From: Mike Potter
Date: 7/13/2003 22:30 Pacific Daylight Time

Thanks! No, I have little about F-8's. Books in the same series that
interest me include the WW2 TBF/TBM by Berrett Tillman, and about USN
F-4s during 1972-73, which of course was when Randy Cunningham became an
ace.

Don't forget, Cunningham didn't become an ace solo ..., "Willy" Driscoll was
the RIO ... g

MW
-------------------------------------
"As soon as movement begins, so does the fog of war" - Edward N. Luttwak