TOW PLANE Accident

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:11:35 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 7:59:06 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I got angry reading that report. I channeled that into a calm, cool, pointed email note to my club entitled "Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot". The ensuing discussion is satisfying.

I know this much for certain: I never want to be the subject of, or accessory to, or close friends of anyone involved an accident like that.

What I've discovered as an instructor... my pre-solo students have no issues keeping focused on tow, and the real pros don't have any issues, either.. "Pro" in this case means (roughly speaking) 1000 hrs in gliders. The guys in the middle though... virtually all will fiddle with something below 500' once in three flights. Radio. Vents. Vario. Camera. Water bottle. Changing glasses. Drives me nuts. One glider instructor (not a tow pilot) tried to argue with me that it was okay to fiddle with the panel!! God damnit, you have ONE job: fly in safe formation with your tug. This accident goes in the same file with that rating-collector instructor at Sugarbush that killed his commercial ride passenger and two aircraft trying to close an unsecured canopy on tow. One wonders why we grant CFI-Gs to guys with 100 hrs in gliders, but that's another rant.

It's probable that anyone that does anything other than fly the tow on a Spring check ride or BFR with me going forward will earn themselves an extra tow in addition to a pointed critique. Club President already refers to me as the "big bad wolf", why disappoint?

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8

This is IMHO good info and should be expanded on during the training process for new glider pilots. I have been flying gliders for a long time, have seen things that would make you shake your head and wonder how in the hell did that happen. There may be more to this accident than we realize, the medical issues surely come into play. More importantly the camera deal was very disturbing, I had heard that there were 7 seconds during the flight that the camera was not operational and then came back on. I hope this was not the case but even one second is too many. Keep the stupid GOPRO out of the cockpit.
We have told people not to use GOPRO cameras in the cockpit, the PIC should not be using a Camera during tow. We do allow people doing introductory rides to use cameras, but no pilots in command.
The instructors should put more emphasis in the training process toward no obstruction tow emphasis. I have seen a very good instructor while doing a BFR ask the pilot to look down and see the object on the ground, only not to have any object there. The emphasis was to evaluate what the pilot did on tow. Thinks like this should be done in training flights especially with new glider pilots. I commend you for sending the message to your club members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 6:30:45 AM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:11:35 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 7:59:06 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I got angry reading that report. I channeled that into a calm, cool, pointed email note to my club entitled "Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot". The ensuing discussion is satisfying.

I know this much for certain: I never want to be the subject of, or accessory to, or close friends of anyone involved an accident like that.

What I've discovered as an instructor... my pre-solo students have no issues keeping focused on tow, and the real pros don't have any issues, either. "Pro" in this case means (roughly speaking) 1000 hrs in gliders. The guys in the middle though... virtually all will fiddle with something below 500' once in three flights. Radio. Vents. Vario. Camera. Water bottle. Changing glasses. Drives me nuts. One glider instructor (not a tow pilot) tried to argue with me that it was okay to fiddle with the panel!! God damnit, you have ONE job: fly in safe formation with your tug. This accident goes in the same file with that rating-collector instructor at Sugarbush that killed his commercial ride passenger and two aircraft trying to close an unsecured canopy on tow. One wonders why we grant CFI-Gs to guys with 100 hrs in gliders, but that's another rant.

It's probable that anyone that does anything other than fly the tow on a Spring check ride or BFR with me going forward will earn themselves an extra tow in addition to a pointed critique. Club President already refers to me as the "big bad wolf", why disappoint?

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8

This is IMHO good info and should be expanded on during the training process for new glider pilots. I have been flying gliders for a long time, have seen things that would make you shake your head and wonder how in the hell did that happen. There may be more to this accident than we realize, the medical issues surely come into play. More importantly the camera deal was very disturbing, I had heard that there were 7 seconds during the flight that the camera was not operational and then came back on. I hope this was not the case but even one second is too many. Keep the stupid GOPRO out of the cockpit.
We have told people not to use GOPRO cameras in the cockpit, the PIC should not be using a Camera during tow. We do allow people doing introductory rides to use cameras, but no pilots in command.
The instructors should put more emphasis in the training process toward no obstruction tow emphasis. I have seen a very good instructor while doing a BFR ask the pilot to look down and see the object on the ground, only not to have any object there. The emphasis was to evaluate what the pilot did on tow. Thinks like this should be done in training flights especially with new glider pilots. I commend you for sending the message to your club members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!

I'm conditionally okay with cockpit video. Requirements are solid mounting and PIC treating as a passive recording device during critical phases of flight. The upside is that you can learn quite a lot of useful stuff on the replay. I used to good effect to grind some bad habits out of my own flying and I know others do the same.

best,
Evan

...and another question: why do so many YouTube videos show the
glider pilot on tow NOT holding the release knob?
In fact it's hard to find a video where the glider pilot does hold the
release throughout the tow!
In a flapped machine that might require a flap change during the
initial stages of the launch it's understandable, perhaps for a few
seconds, but even after the flap change no one ever seems to hold
the release knob.
In the dim and distant past when I was taught aerotows they was
certain to be very loud angry noises from the rear seat if one let go
of the yellow knob. Has something changed in the instructor
manual?
Dave Walsh

Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job
to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to
be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of
the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with
fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8

Snip... I commend you for sending the message to your club
members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow
Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask
the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!

My first thought-betting-nickel upon reading the NTSB report was,
"Stupidly-preventable-never-shoulda-happened-PIC-assisted-fatality."

Lotsa other thoughts, of course (e.g. Glad I'm not that instructor
*regardless* of actual reason(s) for the crash [feel free to invoke the
ever-ready 'age' rationale, here]. Thanks, NTSB, for the seasonal timeliness
of the reminder! Etc.)

And at the risk of being labeled a Safety Nazi, post that sign in the hangar!
Anyone who seriously asks, "What does that mean?" isn't asking a stupid
question. Others? Well, the continuing, sad, arguably-entirely-preventable,
deplorable history of tuggees killing tuggIES isn't a club anyone with an
ounce of common sense will want to join.

In any event, surely this topic is a discussion that should never be far from
active awareness in every glider pilot's mind...

Bob W.

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On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 6:47:06 AM UTC-8, BobW wrote:
Take off/departure accidents seem very preventable. I've made it my job
to work on such prevention at my club and it has, at times, caused me to
be unpopular. Checklist discipline & cockpit discipline at both ends of
the rope save lives. Do it. Let's see if we can get through 2019 with
fewer than our running average of 6 USA gliding related fatalities.

Evan Ludeman / T8

Snip... I commend you for sending the message to your club
members, I think I will have a sign made that says, Don't Kill Your Tow
Pilot, and place it in plain view in the hangar. I am sure someone will ask
the stupid question, "What Does That Mean"!

My first thought-betting-nickel upon reading the NTSB report was,
"Stupidly-preventable-never-shoulda-happened-PIC-assisted-fatality."

Lotsa other thoughts, of course (e.g. Glad I'm not that instructor
*regardless* of actual reason(s) for the crash [feel free to invoke the
ever-ready 'age' rationale, here]. Thanks, NTSB, for the seasonal timeliness
of the reminder! Etc.)

And at the risk of being labeled a Safety Nazi, post that sign in the hangar!
Anyone who seriously asks, "What does that mean?" isn't asking a stupid
question. Others? Well, the continuing, sad, arguably-entirely-preventable,
deplorable history of tuggees killing tuggIES isn't a club anyone with an
ounce of common sense will want to join.

In any event, surely this topic is a discussion that should never be far from
active awareness in every glider pilot's mind...

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

My reaction after reading the NTSB report is that this borders on negligent homicide. If you killed someone while making cell phone call while driving (and taking your eyes off the road) you probably would be charged with second or third degree negligent homicide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_homicide

§707-704 Negligent homicide in the third degree. (1) A person is guilty of the offense of negligent homicide in the third degree if that person causes the death of another person by the operation of a vehicle in a manner which is simple negligence.

(2) "Simple negligence" as used in this section:

(a) A person acts with simple negligence with respect to the person's conduct when the person should be aware of a risk that the person engages in that conduct.

(b) A person acts with simple negligence with respect to attendant circumstances when the person should be aware of a risk that those circumstances exist.

(c) A person acts with simple negligence with respect to a result of the person's conduct when the person should be aware of a risk that the person's conduct will cause that result.

(d) A risk is within the meaning of this subsection if the person's failure to perceive it, considering the nature and purpose of the person's conduct and the circumstances known to the person, involves a deviation from the standard of care that a law-abiding person would observe in the same situation.

In general (likely 98%) I agree with you.
I, and others, lost a friend maybe 30 years ago in NJ with a squirrel on the back end and a friend on the front end.
Friend tried to save the tow (in a L-19 IIRC, not a wimpy towplane), I went to his wake.........

I believe the mantra to our towpilots is, "you get near a control limit while on tow, dump the glider......period.....".
I remember being the PIC (ride, training, don't remember....) in a 2-33, maybe 300' above field and sorta close.
I felt the tow get soft, I elected to abort and go and land.
Towpilot stated later, "I ran a tank dry, I was running in seconds!".
My comment, "you fly your ship, I fly mine.....with me gone, you have one less thing to worry about and your performance is better!"
So, we ate another tow. Big Frikkin deal......I would have happily paid for gas/time on the TP.
We still had 2 flying ships (and a little wasted time) and continued the day with no drama.

Yes, reading the NTSB report sounds like an issue on the glider end and the TP didn't bail early enough. From "facts", this was preventable.
I do not know anyone involved in this, sucks for everyone, site, family, anyone that finds this thread or report.

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground..
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

No, this does not sound correct to me. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions unwarranted. Read it a bit closer! First, the pilot, and instructor, was in the back seat and the "passenger" was in the front seat with the camera. The pilot did not touch the camera and it has nothing to do with the accident as I read it. Are you suggesting the instructor let the passenger fly the tow? That would be the first cause of the accident if I were writing the report. There are many other examples of assumptions being made that I don't have time to go into, but one, my gopro stops the video and starts the video after a certain duration, that start and stop could have been done automatically by the camera, and two " Based on the glider altimeter readings that can be seen in the videos, the glider climbed about 50 ft during this time, from 890 to 940 ft msl. Video analysis showed that the tow plane altitude relative to the glider decreased by 63 ft during these 13 seconds (based on an estimated tow rope length of 160 ft).", does not sound like a glider pulling the towplane down. Perhaps the towplane descended dramatically after that for some other reason. Regardless, it is in no way conclusive that the glider pulled the towplane down. I have no idea what is likely and I'm not going to presume. Most of the time we all talk about how inaccurate/uninformed the NTSB reports are,why is it different here?

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground..
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).


"Video Study
The glider flight instructor recorded two videos on a GoPro Hero 5 video camera that included most of the flight. Although the videos did not capture the tow plane's ground impact, they captured portions of the tow plane's flight just before impact. Copies of the videos were forwarded to the National Transportation Safety Board Vehicle Recorders Laboratory, Washington, DC, for further examination."

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 3:38:19 PM UTC-5, Mike C wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).


"Video Study
The glider flight instructor recorded two videos on a GoPro Hero 5 video camera that included most of the flight. Although the videos did not capture the tow plane's ground impact, they captured portions of the tow plane's flight just before impact. Copies of the videos were forwarded to the National Transportation Safety Board Vehicle Recorders Laboratory, Washington, DC, for further examination."

Yes, I read that, and I alluded to that portion in my comment. What is your point? What conclusion did you draw from that part of the report?