ELT Required for all SSA sanctioned contests starting 2006

"Martin Eiler" wrote in message
...
Most people consider pilot safety as everything needed until that pilot is
safe and sound at his intended destination. Pilots spend thousands of
dollars per year on auto, glider and life insurance. Yet there is this
whine about spending a few hundred dollars one time on a piece of
equipment
that could mean the difference between life and death, in the event of a
crash.

As we are all aware, the old 121.5 MHz ELTs are on their way out, with only
3 more years of promised satallite coverage. The few 406 MHz ELTs that I've
seen have yet to see much of a price drop.

From Chief Aircraft:

Ameri-King AK-450, a popular 121.5 ELT: $183.75 USD

Artex G406, a 406 MHz ELT: $1589.00

Handheld radios, cell and satellite phones are all excellent items
for your land out kits, but none of them are automatically activated
during
a crash; nor will phones or radios be of any use if you become
unconscious.


One of the many problems with the real world experience of the older ELTs,
is that in most cases they have not activated automatically in a crash. They
do, however, seem to activate for a myrid number of non-crash reasons such
as hard landings and whatever. And almost all activations have been false.

Pilots who fly in remote, mountainous and wilderness areas should
reconsider
installing an ELT, if not for themselves, then maybe for their families
who
may lose a loved one simply because they weren’t found in time.



M Eiler


The argument I've seen most often against the US contest requirement for an
installed ELT, is not that there isn't a need for this sort of thing at all,
but rather that a PLB (personal locator beacon) is a more viable solution.
PLBs can be small enough to attach to a parachute harness, operate on 406
MHz (so won't become obsolete in 3 years), can be had with built in GPS to
send a precise location, and will direct search personnel to the pilot as
opposed to the wreckage. Further, they are registered to the pilot so
searcher know who they are looking for, and obviously will work in more than
just one vehicle or activity. Prices have come down to the $500 -$700 range
(w/ GPS built in).

bumper

The main objections to use of a personal beacon rather
than an installed ELT appear to be cost [i.e. a weak
emotional and personal issue] and lack of automatic
activation. Does anyone know of a way to activate
an EPIRB automatically in the event of a crash ? If
that could be done, would the SRA accept it in place
of an ELT ?

Being with the pilot rather than the aircraft, and
having the 406/GPS capabilities, are strong arguments
for preferring the EPIRB solution.

Ian

At 13:36 07 September 2005, Mickiminner wrote:

Just wait until you have to make the phone call to
a wife/spouse that
their pilot hasn't come back to the field.....and you
don't know where
that pilot is. Just wait until you have to launch
rescue search
parties and hoping against all hope that you can get
to the pilot
before they die. Personally, I would rather spend the
$400 or $500
bucks to get an ELT rather than sitting somewhere in
the mountains
waiting to see if anybody 'noticed' where I had gone
down. just my
thoughts. I have been there and hope to never be there
again. I love
the sport, and don't want to see good pilots lost because
they wanted
to push that little bit extra and didn't make it.

I think the point is that the ELT will not indicate
to the rescuers where you are. It may be very interesting
to find the wreckage of your glider but the whole point
of the exercise is to find the pilot. ELT are fine
for powered aircraft where the occupant(s) don't have
the means of abandoning the aircraft and are also the
only way to cover all those on board. For the majority
of glider pilots a PLB would be the far better option.
They already operate on the new frequency and can be
activated automatically by suitably equipped aircraft.
I would have thought that having a beacon serval miles
away in the wreckage of your glider would do little
for you if you have happened to land several miles
away and need assistance.

I would have thought that the choice between pushing
that little bit extra and avoiding crashing was a complete
no brainer, ELT or no ELT.

It seems to me that the choice of ELT is the result
of wholly thinking especially as it has already been
pointed out that it has less to do with pilot safety
and more for the peace of mind of contest organisers.

At 18:24 07 September 2005, T O D D P A T T I S T wrote:
Don Johnstone
wrote:

I think the point is that the ELT will not indicate
to the rescuers where you are. It may be very interesting
to find the wreckage of your glider but the whole point
of the exercise is to find the pilot.

The error zone for locating the ELT is significantly
greater
than the distance any pilot is going to be separated
from
the wreckage by a chute. If you are worried about walking
away after the accident, get one of the removable ELT
units
with voice capability.

ELT are fine
for powered aircraft where the occupant(s) don't have
the means of abandoning the aircraft and are also the
only way to cover all those on board. For the majority
of glider pilots a PLB would be the far better option.

I strongly disagree. Automatic activation in a crash
is
absolutely essential.

Which is why proper aircraft PLBs, not the marine EPIRB
or backpackers PLB, have that capability

http://www.sarbe.com/g2r.htm which has a 'G' switch
activation amongst others (see data sheet on page)

they also produce models for the current frequency
SABRE 5/6 for example. I have looked at other sites
and the PLBs I have seen have the ability to automatically
activate.

http://www.hr-smith.com/products.htm

However this is not the point, the SSA requirement
is not about finding the pilot it is about peace of
mind for organisers (See the earlier posts) Perhaps
the answer should be if the SSA want ELTs in contests
then they should loan them to contestants.

G activated ELTs in gliders? This should make the
contest pilots very well known with the local police
and CAP. After a few hundred false ELT alarms from
contest pilots who have the thing bumping around in
the trailer, we'll see how this pans out.

grabs spoon, stirs the s***pot a little more
Mark J. Boyd

Hi,

I will soon have "low cost" 406 ELTs from Artex for $995. They are listed
on my web site. I don't have them in stock yet but they should be available
in a few weeks.
http://www.soarmn.com/cumulus/elts.htm

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"bumper" wrote in message
news

"Martin Eiler" wrote in message
...
Most people consider pilot safety as everything needed until that pilot
is
safe and sound at his intended destination. Pilots spend thousands of
dollars per year on auto, glider and life insurance. Yet there is this
whine about spending a few hundred dollars one time on a piece of
equipment
that could mean the difference between life and death, in the event of a
crash.

As we are all aware, the old 121.5 MHz ELTs are on their way out, with
only 3 more years of promised satallite coverage. The few 406 MHz ELTs
that I've seen have yet to see much of a price drop.

From Chief Aircraft:

Ameri-King AK-450, a popular 121.5 ELT: $183.75 USD

Artex G406, a 406 MHz ELT: $1589.00

Handheld radios, cell and satellite phones are all excellent items
for your land out kits, but none of them are automatically activated
during
a crash; nor will phones or radios be of any use if you become
unconscious.


One of the many problems with the real world experience of the older ELTs,
is that in most cases they have not activated automatically in a crash.
They do, however, seem to activate for a myrid number of non-crash reasons
such as hard landings and whatever. And almost all activations have been
false.

Pilots who fly in remote, mountainous and wilderness areas should
reconsider
installing an ELT, if not for themselves, then maybe for their families
who
may lose a loved one simply because they weren't found in time.



M Eiler


The argument I've seen most often against the US contest requirement for
an installed ELT, is not that there isn't a need for this sort of thing at
all, but rather that a PLB (personal locator beacon) is a more viable
solution. PLBs can be small enough to attach to a parachute harness,
operate on 406 MHz (so won't become obsolete in 3 years), can be had with
built in GPS to send a precise location, and will direct search personnel
to the pilot as opposed to the wreckage. Further, they are registered to
the pilot so searcher know who they are looking for, and obviously will
work in more than just one vehicle or activity. Prices have come down to
the $500 -$700 range (w/ GPS built in).

bumper

M B wrote:

G activated ELTs in gliders? This should make the
contest pilots very well known with the local police

In the country I fly, nearly all gliders are ELT equipped. Very few
false alarms. Hint: You can actually turn the ELT off for transportation
(or secure it, depends on the brand).

Stefan

I've had an ACK-brand ELT in my ASW 24 since 1992. Cost me about $200
plus a fresh set of D-cell batteries every few years (the old ones go
into the flashlights that my young daughters are always leaving
switched on).

No false alarms in that time. No activations either, thank goodness.

I switch it to "armed" before each flight (it's on my checklist) and
back to "off" when I derig. There's an annunciator on my instrument
panel so I can see it blink if it deploys accidentally. More important,
I can manually activate it if necessary after a crash. Or, if I have
great presence of mind, I can punch the button just before I land in
the trees. It came with a "walk out" antenna and lanyard so I can carry
it with me following a survivable crash.

It's not perfect (I'd also like a personal beacon for possible
bailout). And I'd probably have a somewhat different opinion if I had
to buy one now knowing that sat coverage is planned to end in three
years. But I wouldn't squawk about it even if I had to do so. I'll
probably fly 6-9 SSA contests over the next three seasons plus a whole
bunch of practice XC flights over non-flatland terrain. It's worth $3
or $4 a flight for a little peace of mind (however misguided others may
think that is) plus reassurance to my family that I've taken every
reasonable step to maximize my survival if something goes wrong.

I'm not planning to crash, but the situations I think about the most
are takeoff, landing, low thermaling/ridge flying, and mid-air
collision. The first and last scenarios will have witnesses. It's the
two middle cases where an ELT might be valuable. And in both of those,
someone will know I'm missing if I don't return; the first question
will be "where to look?"

As one poster notes, the cost of the 121.5/243 ELTs today is very
likely less than the expected price reduction of 406 units over the
next 3+ years. And that's presuming I would replace my unit with a new
406 ELT at that time, which isn't certain.

And it's a whole lot less expensive--by nearly an order of
magnitude--than the flight recorders we were forced to buy to replace
the clock cameras we were forced to buy to replace the Instamatic
cameras we were forced to buy when turnpoint panels were discontinued
in the 1960s. Ah, those were the good old days...

Chip Bearden

Don Johnstone wrote:

So the requirement has nothing at all to do with the
safety of pilots, just for the peace of mind of contest
organisers. Thank you for explaining it so clearly.

The following is not directed at Don, but at those that think an ELT is
worthless because it is unlikely to result in saving a pilot's life.

We should remember that the contest organizers are almost always glider
pilots like ourselves, who have given up some days of flying and put in
a lot of work so the rest of us can fly in a contest. Doing something
that they think is important seems like a good way of thanking them for
their sacrifice, and is likely to result in some volunteers for the
contest next year.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

M B wrote:

G activated ELTs in gliders? This should make the
contest pilots very well known with the local police
and CAP. After a few hundred false ELT alarms from
contest pilots who have the thing bumping around in
the trailer, we'll see how this pans out.

I've trailered my ELT equipped glider for about 60,000 miles without a
single activation, and I don't even secure it for travel. I've made
about 300 flights with it, again without activation. I don't know what
airplane pilots do to accidentally activate theirs, but it doesn't seem
to happen in the ELT equipped gliders I know about.

I haven't crashed with it yet, so I can't document that part of it's
ability.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA