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Some bad controllers



 
 
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  #51  
Old March 8th 04, 09:45 PM
Snowbird
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Newps wrote in message news:mNQ2c.499756$I06.5381546@attbi_s01...

If you do not hear the controller talking then he is not busy, doesn't
matter how many freq's he has. Controllers do not switch transmitters
on and off to talk to different aircraft. What he may be doing off the
air is irrelavant. If he gets too busy he gets another body in there to
handle the landline.


If he has another body to haul in there.

This is kind of funny to me. I remember some time ago I posted
about an incident where a Big Iron captain got P/O'ed at a not-
busy controller for not pointing me out as traffic (I was VFR
with flight following and couldn't have hit him with a JATO assist).

I seem to recall that several ATCS on the groups including SPM and
(I think) you, jumped all over me pointing out that just because I
didn't hear the controller talking a lot on that freq., doesn't mean
he isn't busy, he could be doing a lot of coordination so forth so on.

OK, so I took it to heart, don't assume the controller isn't busy
just because you don't hear non-stop chatter.

Now it seems y'all are saying to the contrary. If we don't hear
y'all talking non-stop, you aren't busy. Roger.

Another day, another viewpoint.

Cheers,
Sydney
  #52  
Old March 8th 04, 10:04 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...

Is that always true? I know I hear this pattern sometimes, but I thought
it wasn't necessarily true.


Always true? I don't know, but if it's not it's certainly the norm. I try
to stay from absolutes because there are almost always exceptions. Note
that in another response I said "When controllers are working many
frequencies they typically broadcast on all of them simultaneously."

I recall working with a former Denver Center controller nearly twenty years
ago who described working a sector with multiple transceiver sites using the
same frequency. He had to select which site to use depending on the
location of the aircraft.



In any event, if he's spending time on the 'phone coordinating, we
won't hear that.


No, but if you don't hear him broadcasting to any aircraft he's probably got
nothing to coordinate.


  #53  
Old March 8th 04, 10:06 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...

This is kind of funny to me. I remember some time ago I posted
about an incident where a Big Iron captain got P/O'ed at a not-
busy controller for not pointing me out as traffic (I was VFR
with flight following and couldn't have hit him with a JATO assist).

I seem to recall that several ATCS on the groups including SPM and
(I think) you, jumped all over me pointing out that just because I
didn't hear the controller talking a lot on that freq., doesn't mean
he isn't busy, he could be doing a lot of coordination so forth so on.


Odd, I don't recall anything like that.


  #54  
Old March 8th 04, 11:24 PM
Tom Sixkiller
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"Everett M. Greene" wrote in message
...
I once tried to get a clearance from PVD approach on a
popup from Newport on a CAVU night. There wasn't an
airplane in the sky except us and we were told there'd
be a 45 minute delay. And PVD isn't that busy at the
worst of times...


[Old Adage] "Am I up here so you can be down there, or are you down there so
I can be up here?"


  #55  
Old March 8th 04, 11:27 PM
John R. Copeland
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message =
ink.net...
=20
=20
=20
I recall working with a former Denver Center controller nearly twenty =

years
ago who described working a sector with multiple transceiver sites =

using the
same frequency. He had to select which site to use depending on the
location of the aircraft.
=20
=20

I've run into that with Centers covering mountainous areas, too.
The first time, I thought I was losing coverage because I could barely
hear the controller talking to other aircraft on the frequency.
When I asked if he could copy me, he replied loud and clear to my area,
and explained what I'd just experienced was exactly as Steven described.

I wouldn't try to guess whether Phoenix Tracon might have a similar =
setup.
---JRC---

  #56  
Old March 8th 04, 11:32 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"John R. Copeland" wrote in message
...

I've run into that with Centers covering mountainous areas, too.
The first time, I thought I was losing coverage because I could barely
hear the controller talking to other aircraft on the frequency.
When I asked if he could copy me, he replied loud and clear to my area,
and explained what I'd just experienced was exactly as Steven
described.

I wouldn't try to guess whether Phoenix Tracon might have a similar
setup.


Very unlikely. The Center sectors that do this tend to be very large and
have relatively little traffic.


  #57  
Old March 9th 04, 12:58 AM
Matthew S. Whiting
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies,
and do things besides talk on the radio.



When controllers are working many frequencies they typically broadcast on
all of them simultaneously. You won't hear other aircraft, but you will
hear the controller.



Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.


Matt

  #58  
Old March 9th 04, 12:59 AM
Matthew S. Whiting
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Mike Rapoport wrote:
Fine, but while flying above the nasty icing clouds, don't ask for IFR to
descend to your destination in busy class B airspace!


I won't because I almost always file IFR the entire trip. Just seems
easier in many respects and I don't mind talking to the friendly (mostly
anyway) ATC folks. :-)


Matt

  #59  
Old March 9th 04, 01:00 AM
Matthew S. Whiting
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Newps wrote:


Doug Rinks wrote:

Jeff,
A couple things.. I think out of fairness to the controller the only
thing which you can say is that he was not busy on your freqency. It
is possible that he was busy on another freqency which you were unable
to hear,



No, it's not possible. If you cannot hear the controller then he is not
saying anything.


Not even on a landline to another facility?

Matt

  #60  
Old March 9th 04, 01:05 AM
Matthew S. Whiting
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Snowbird wrote:
Newps wrote in message news:mNQ2c.499756$I06.5381546@attbi_s01...


If you do not hear the controller talking then he is not busy, doesn't
matter how many freq's he has. Controllers do not switch transmitters
on and off to talk to different aircraft. What he may be doing off the
air is irrelavant. If he gets too busy he gets another body in there to
handle the landline.



If he has another body to haul in there.

This is kind of funny to me. I remember some time ago I posted
about an incident where a Big Iron captain got P/O'ed at a not-
busy controller for not pointing me out as traffic (I was VFR
with flight following and couldn't have hit him with a JATO assist).

I seem to recall that several ATCS on the groups including SPM and
(I think) you, jumped all over me pointing out that just because I
didn't hear the controller talking a lot on that freq., doesn't mean
he isn't busy, he could be doing a lot of coordination so forth so on.

OK, so I took it to heart, don't assume the controller isn't busy
just because you don't hear non-stop chatter.

Now it seems y'all are saying to the contrary. If we don't hear
y'all talking non-stop, you aren't busy. Roger.

Another day, another viewpoint.

Cheers,
Sydney


You don't have to recall, you can use Google!

Matt

 




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