How to get IFR Clearance enroute?

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ

Stimbo wrote:
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

I've never experienced the half-hour delay you describe. Of course, if you file
before leaving home in the expectation that you may or may not pick up a
clearance at some point way down the line, I can see where that could cause
problems. You were never "departed" by ATC from your point of origin, so sectors
on down the line never got your strip. When you call and want to pick up your
clearance, they don't know who you are. Your strip is sitting back at your
departure airport.


Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

If you're near your destination, just call on the TRACON frequency and ask for a
"local IFR clearance" for arrival. In the destination-TRACON's airspace, I've
never had it denied.

Calling enroute (not the destination's airspace) I have had mixed results. It
doesn't hurt to ask. You'll either (a) get the clearance you want, or (b) be
told "unable" and directed to call Flight Service, in which case you, uhhhh,
call Flight Service. When I've done this, ATC had my clearance by the time I
switched frequencies. What's the half-hour delay? Never happened to me. I think
the Flight Service dude just types your flight plan directly into the ARTCC
computer.


I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

My strategy is, if I think I might encounter IMC, I just go ahead and file from
the get-go. But you said you prefer to go VFR if able.

Do you mind talking to ATC when you're VFR? If not, you can use the technique
that's been described here in an earlier thread, where you file a flight plan,
check the IFR box, and then put "VFR/altitude" in the altitude box. That gets
you an ATC strip, and when you leave you call up ATC and ask for VFR advisories
and tell them "you probably already have a strip for me". That gets you
"departed". Stay with the VFR advisories all the way along, and when you get to
some IMC, you can ask for a clearance, and they already have all the information
on you. Google for the -long- thread in which this was discussed on r.a.i.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

On 19 May 2004 10:46:33 -0700, (Stimbo) wrote:

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

When this happens to me, I call up the nearest FSS frequency, tell
them I need to air-file, and then file. Give it a few minutes and
then call Center. In my experience, they will always have your strip.

If you are near your destination, you can call approach and ask for a
local IFR to let down through a layer.

-Nathan

Filing with FSS from the next nearest radio aid works pretty well for me.
Doesn't take a half hour and even if it does, Center or Approach will
generally give some sort of clearance pending the plan showing up.

NJ to FL - if you know you will run into some IMC why not file and fly IFR?
South of DC, IFR is as easy and almost as flexible as VFR. Makes it easier
to stay clear of all the Restricted space to the south and makes management
of MOAs easier.

And I tend to be pretty careful about penetrating "cumulus build-ups in
front of me", especially the further south I go. And If I'm going to go
play among the buildups, going IFR is the easiest way to get radar
advisories and it's the legal way to visually fly the cloud canyons that us
normally aspirated guys sometimes have to fly. The folks in places like JAX
center are totally on board with what you are doing and will give you every
chance to remain visual while IFR if that's an option on a given day.

Try to do it IFR and you may find it easier and more convenient, at least
south of DC.

""Stimbo" wrote in message
om...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ

(Stimbo) wrote in message . com...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Ask .

More specifically: it helps ATC if your info is in the system. The
more info in the system, the more it helps.

Officially, the way to obtain an IFR clearance enroute is to contact
FSS in the air, file an IFR flight plan with them from some point
your route will cross (navaid, intersection, airport) to your
destination, request the correct facility and freq. to contact ATC
if you don't know.

Then call up ATC. Advice about what exactly to say varies. I'd
go with something like: "Bigfish Center, Piper 12345, request IFR
clearance". That's who I wanna talk to, who I am, what I want,
and where I rank on the controller's duty priority (he's not already
working me IFR). I'm skipping where I am, what altitude, and where
I'm going; I'll provide all that when he gets back to me.

This is basically the same procedure as when you file on the ground
with FSS, depart from a non-towered airport VFR and request your
IFR clearance once airborne.

Practically speaking, if we have filed a VFR flight plan and are
receiving flight following from ATC, when we've requested an IFR
clearance the conversation has gone something like this: "Bigfish
Center, Piper 1234, request IFR clearance to Podunk" "Piper 1234,
do you have a VFR flight plan on file?" "Affirmative, Piper 1234"
"Piper 1234, you are cleared from present position to Podunk
via (route), climb and maintain X thousand". The skinny is, when
I'm receiving ff from center, I'm already in the ATC computer
system with much of the info the controller needs. He wants to
know if the rest of my info (needed for SAR purposes) is in the
FSS system. I tell him it is, he types whatever he needs to switch
me to a hard IFR altitude and an IFR flight plan, and we're good
to go.

Important: note that if you have a VFR flight plan open and request
IFR, *you still have a VFR flight plan open* and must close it with
FSS (either request of ATC to change freq to FSS, or close it on
the ground).

Personal anecdote: we've gotten "dropped" from the system twice
while flying IFR. Both times, we had requested a pop-up clearance
while receiving ff from the *previous* ATC facility. At a hunch,
something didn't get changed correctly. So beware...be prepared
to stuff yourself back into the system if need be.

Another opinion: it is the view of my very experienced CFI that
if the weather is deteriorating enough to request an IFR clearance,
safety is best served by landing, getting a thorough briefing,
filing, and taking off again, especially if you are single-pilot.
A point worth considering IMHO.


Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC.

I've never had it take 1/2 hr to receive a clearance airborne (but
for that matter, I've seldom had it take that long to receive a
clearance on the ground). Sometimes you need to negotiate. For
example if you're below radar coverage, you can request a clearance
to some nearby navaid, in order to be able to climb and get radar
identified without ATC having to work a large block of airspace under
non-radar rules.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me?

I'm not sure what you mean by cumulus build-up, but if t-storms are
a possibility, personally I really want to remain VFR. Especially if
building cumulus weren't in the forcast enough for me to plan and
file IFR on the ground, I want a very good picture of what's going
on ahead of me before I turn myself over to ATC to get vectored around
in the clouds. Maybe it's just me, but when we're flying along in a
cloud, peaceful and happy with the wx briefing we received, nothing
gets my attention (and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand
up) like hearing other planes on freq. requesting to divert or
other indications of convective weather.

Do I file with FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center?

File with FSS but don't wait to contact Center. If you wait, you
may be in different airspace and they won't have access to your
flightplan.

Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

You CAN file directly with Center, but if they're busy, it's a
PITA for them. If you're already "in the system" getting ff, and
your SAR info is already on file, it's much easier for them and
they may take you directly.

HTH,
Sydney

On 19 May 2004 21:04:44 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

(Stimbo) wrote in message . com...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Ask .

More specifically: it helps ATC if your info is in the system. The
more info in the system, the more it helps.

Officially, the way to obtain an IFR clearance enroute is to contact
FSS in the air, file an IFR flight plan with them from some point
your route will cross (navaid, intersection, airport) to your
destination, request the correct facility and freq. to contact ATC
if you don't know.

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.

Seems like there has to be a better way.

-Nathan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.

Seems like there has to be a better way.

You don't use a departure airport as I recall. You are filing from some
point you haven't quite reached yet (or are holding at) and your
desitination. The next VOR is usually the best choice

Nathan Young wrote in
:

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.

There is no requirement that an IFR clearance start or end at an airport.
You can give any fix you like, preferably still ahead of you. It can be a
VOR, NDB, intersection, or just lat/lon. A named fix of one sort or another
makes it easier on everyone, though.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport?


Don't use an airport, use the fix where you intend to pick up the IFR
clearance.

Nathan Young wrote in message . ..
When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport?

I don't use a departure airport. I use some convenient point
I will shortly cross or pass near. It can be a VOR, an NDB,
an intersection, degree-distance from a VOR, an airport. The
requirement is 1) to have something the computer will accept
2) to have something ATC can identify

I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago.

I would strongly recommend you DON'T do this. The reason is, if you
have passed into airspace controlled by another ATC facility, they
will not have your flightplan. The ATC computer will have sent
it to the ATC facility controlling the airspace around your departure
airport and there it will sit. In order to find your flightplan, ATC
will have to figure out where your departure airport is, who controls
that airspace, call 'em up, and say "depart that guy".

All problems you can avoid by simply filing from a point near your
actual geographic location at the time you file.

Cheers,
Sydney