What if...

john smith wrote:
That gets me to wondering... what about a spin?
A spin will give you a high rate of descent at stall speed.

A descent rate in a spin is not that great. You can get down much faster
in a steep spiral dive.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200704/1

"john smith" wrote

What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane?

If the airplane is trying to kill you, it does not belong to you any more,
but to the insurance company. If it is a severe fire, you probably don't
want the airplane anymore, anyway.

I guess what I'm saying, is don't worry about breaking the airplane. It is
already broke, and on fire. Just don't break it so bad that you lose
control of landing in your own terms.
--
Jim in NC

"Jim Burns" wrote:

I did my commercial work in a 182RG.

I was taught Chop(power), Prop(full), Drop(nose down), Gear (at gear speed),
Flaps (initial, then full when in white arc), 60 degree bank away from the
fire, holding airspeed at the top of the white arc. It would get you down
fast, add rudder and we'd see over 2500 fpm down. After about 2 turns of
that demonstration, my DE said... Ok, good enough.

Commercial students that I taught this method to needed to be eased into it,
but after one or two attempts, most found it fun.

I've done it in my airplane.

Mighty rough on the ears.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"john smith" wrote in message ...
:
: One of the things the POH does say, is that the fast way to get down is
: to extend the gear and full flaps.
: When you are taking advantage of the turbocharger to go higher, getting
: down from over 10,000 to lower altitudes while you're on fire becomes
: urgent.
: The fastest I have descended, intentionally, is 1300 fpm. That is going
: to require at least 8 minutes. When you're on fire, that's a LOOOONG
: time!
: Can I get 2000 fpm or more? I don't know, I haven't tried it.
: At 1300 fpm and the power pulled back, I was up into the yellow arc in
: smooth air.
: What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: smooth air, forever.
: But you have to level out gradually to avoid overloading with G's and
: bleed off that airspeed to land. Thats going to add more time.



This is what the steep spiral is for...

Also, there is no such thing as 'the red arc', it is red line Vne, don't wanna exceed it...

On 4/25/2007 6:08:03 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:

What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: smooth air, forever.

I have been able to get over 2000 fpm and without going into yellow or red in
my Bonanza V35 with gear down, RPMs back to around 2100, and MP back to 15
inches. The trick in the Bonanza is to slow it up first while level (RPM and
throttle back, drop gear), then begin the descent.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:

On 4/25/2007 6:08:03 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:


What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: smooth air, forever.


I have been able to get over 2000 fpm and without going into yellow or red in
my Bonanza V35 with gear down, RPMs back to around 2100, and MP back to 15
inches. The trick in the Bonanza is to slow it up first while level (RPM and
throttle back, drop gear), then begin the descent.

Me too. I can peg the VSI and never get near the yellow line in my S35.

Thank you, gentlemen!
This is the kind of information I was looking for.

flynrider via AviationKB.com wrote:
john smith wrote:
That gets me to wondering... what about a spin?
A spin will give you a high rate of descent at stall speed.

A descent rate in a spin is not that great. You can get down much faster
in a steep spiral dive.


Particularly after the wings separate. As an aside, back in the old days before
IFR, the poor slobs flying the mail would spin down through an overcast
intentionally, assuming they'd break out high enough to recover before they went
splat. Some won, some lost.

It seems to me that the thing to do with trying to get down rapidly is drop the
gear and the flaps, no power and the prop set full forward for maximum drag (or
at least to max rpm but not over redline), then dump the nose at the maximum
gear extended speed or top of the white, whichever is the lower of the speeds.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

In article ,
john smith wrote:


One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

It seems like the first question you have to answer is "how
would you tell that was the failure?" If you can't answer that,
then the question is the same as "what do you do if you have an
engine fire?"

Having said that, I guess if you *knew* that an oil leak was
feeding the fire, you'd have to decide whether shutting down
the engine would stop it or not.

Mike Beede

Back in the early 70s, we were taught to dive in the
event of an engine fire.
Second [reason] was that it was the closest way to the ground,
and you need to get there NOW.

Another quick way down is to pull back the power and hold the yoke full
back (controlling bank with the rudders). This takes you down in a
stall, with not much forward speed. Depending on where the fire is, I
speculate that it might be better to have the relative wind blowing from
below than in front.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
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