Unpaved Landing areas

In article
,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

BTW -- my pax was test pilot for the Lunar Module training vehicle. He
voiced no objections, as we had plenty of start/stop distance.

You had Neal Armstrong as your pax? WOW!!!

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

In article
,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

BTW -- my pax was test pilot for the Lunar Module training vehicle. He
voiced no objections, as we had plenty of start/stop distance.

You had Neal Armstrong as your pax? WOW!!!

No -- Scott MacLeod -- he was the Astronaut rep at Grumman and also flew
the Lm Testbed.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:07 -0700 (PDT), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote:

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway? The current books don't give it much thought and I
suspect because the writers are so new at this aviation thing, they
have little or no experience on anything but paved runways.
Part of the reason for this post was the resistance to more than a few
to not land on a great 2000' grass strip that has an Interstate on one
end, and trees on the other. I have no idea why they are afraid to
land on this strip. There are at least three grass strips of 2000'
length in this area and some that are longer (one is about 4000').
What has your experience been? I have no idea how much time I have
operating off strips of 1200' or less, grass, gravel, sand, etc and no
problems. Must be at least thousands of them, both in terms of take
off and landings as well as hours.
Ol S&B

I think it relates to experience and availability; occasionally to the type
of aircraft. We don't have too many grass strips to operate out of here in
the NE, that are also suitable for my aircraft.

For rental aircraft, there may be prohibitions agains landing on unpaved
runways.

I have a "mature" Mooney which (if the donuts are in good shape) has about
9" prop clearance and maybe 3-5" clearance at the gear doors. So, although
I'm not hesitant to operate off properly maintained grass, (and have done
so numerous times), I do have to be careful about those limits. (On the
newer Mooney's, removal of the gear doors is recommended in those
circumstances).

Probably my most challenging was 65B (Lubec, ME) which is about 2,000' with
trees at both ends, on a hot summer day. 1B2 (Katama) on Martha's Vineyard
is a popular destination and, when we lived closer, used to go there
frequently during the summer (5 minute walk from "beach parking" to the
beach).

Heck, when I was based at KASH, I used the grass adjacent to the runway
when the runway was being repaved, some years ago.
--ron

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not very often. I'm still in primary training however and since I'm about to
take my test soon, I asked my FI to let me try some landings on a nearby
grass field used mainly by glider pilots but also PPR for powered aircraft.
Almost all other airfields in the vicinity have at least one paved runway so
these were my first landings on grass and probably the only ones for a long
time. Here's a picture

http://www.eddh.de/x-files/appr-pics/EDLC.jpg

Apart from being a bit bumpier than a paved strip and the runway being
several feet lower in the middle than at the ends...no big deal at least
when it's dry. And wind correction is also easier because you dont get that
annoying sound when you don't fully decrab before touchdown. I liked it.

I can't understand why insurance companies want higher rates for the
permission to land on unpaved strips...unless it's got something to do with
the many private airfields in the US in dubious condition. Couldn't happen
here in Germany...you are not allowed to land outside an officially approved
airfield and if it's an official airfield, the operator has to guarantee the
safety of the field.

How often do you get to land or take off from something other than a
paved runway?

Not sure if this counts, but I flew ultralights back when I lived in
Arizona, and the runways were all dirt. The biggest problem was when
there was monsoon the night before, the strip turned to soup and would
be closed for at least a day.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:11:35 -0700 (PDT), Rocky Stevens
wrote:

Not sure if this counts, but I flew ultralights back when I lived in
Arizona, and the runways were all dirt. The biggest problem was when
there was monsoon the night before, the strip turned to soup and would
be closed for at least a day.

You should try flying from a grass field in New Hampshire! From
December to April, it's always an adventure.

I once taxied up to the gas pump to find Bonnie the flight insturctor
had gotten out her ice skates and was twirling about on the glaze. I
have literally been blown off the runway *sideways* when a crosswind
combines with glare ice. With one Cub, I found that I could negotiate
the turns better if I switched to Left magneto; the engine ran slower
and I was more likely to make the turn.

And that's only when it stays cold! Inevitably, a freeze is followed
by a thaw, and the surface to mud.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:8644438bd8ae6@uwe...
Mike wrote:
Such is the case with my insurance. I suppose I could probably pay more
for
the privelege, but there's not that many in which I care to land and the
wear and tear to my nosewheel plane just isn't worth it. Besides I can
always hitch a ride with a tailwheel buddy or rent a Citabria if I have a
turf runway itch I need to scratch.

Strange. I've never had a policy that prohibited unpaved runways and
I've
been buying 'em since 1990. Out here in the west, a large number of
public
use airports have unpaved runways.

Unpaved doesn't necessarily mean wear and tear on the nosewheel. I've
been
landing my Cherokee on strips like these for more than a dozen yrs. and
have
never had any nosegear problems :

I agree completely. A well maintained turf runway is no problem. It's the
unmaintained ones that are hard on aircraft. Naturally unmaintained paved
runways are a problem too, but there aren't as many.


http://members.cox.net/jgalban/12f70900.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jgalban/1c180890.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jgalban/1ed9bf40.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jgalban/1fa9bf40.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jgalban/13e15900.jpg

There are a lot of very unique unpaved public airports in the country.
Your missing out.

I've got probably 200 or so take-offs and landings on turf fields. The
number of them that I miss can be counted on one hand. Gastons, Cedar
Mills, and McGehee's come to mind, but as I said, I can always go with
someone else if I want to and I rent a tailwheel 3-4 times per year anyway.

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:28:24 GMT, "Mike" wrote:

Naturally unmaintained paved
runways are a problem too, but there aren't as many.

Actually, I find it just the opposite. I know of three grass runways,
all of them smooth as could be. And the two paved runways I most often
fly to are terribly rough. Indeed, one of them is blacklisted by the
home airfield because it's too hard on tailwheels.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com