FLARM and ADS-B and PCAS Traffic Display on PC

Hi Paul,

When the Flarm display screen in XCSoar, simply tap on the target in
question and you'll get full information.Â* This is IIRC...

Dan

On 3/13/2019 8:16 PM, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi Ramy,

Thanks. I'm seeing ADS-B targets as blue triangles on the map, but I can only see range, relative altitude and vario reading when I go to the FLARM Radar screen - which doesn't have a map background.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
_________________________

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 9:11:30 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
At least on my Dell Streak the flarm and ADSB (but not PCAS) targets are showing in the moving map as tiny small blue arrows. There may be a setting to enable this, don’t recall of the top of my head. Also I believe there is no buffer time so they come and go quickly as the reception fluctuates.

Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

Hi,

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative. However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
_____________________________________
On Monday, March 11, 2019 at 3:41:51 PM UTC-5, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

A customer has a PowerFLARM Core and wants to use it to display nearby FLARM, ADS-B and PCAS traffic on a PC - on the ground. It is easy to connect the PowerFLARM Core to the PC's serial port, but I'm not aware of any software to display the traffic on a map. Any suggestions? Are any soaring clubs doing this?

The customer is currently using an Oudie 2. It works fine, but he'd prefer a much larger and higher-resolution monitor.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.

OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go he http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).

There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.

BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.


On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.

OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go he http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).

There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.

BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.


On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.

OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go he http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 7:18:46 PM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:

PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/

That makes much more sense. Thanks.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:18:43 -0700, Tom BravoMike wrote:


PilotAware? https://pilotaware.com/

Good catch - I only know about PilotAware from a single article in S&G.
I remembered the name ended in ---Aware but, predictably, got the first
part wrong. I also now know that the ground station lets GA pilots see
FLARM aircraft, but not the other way round.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:52:22 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).

There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.

BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.


On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.

OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go he http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Aren't there also low-cost "OGN Trackers" (mostly in gliders in Europe?) which transmit signals that ground stations collect and contribute to the OGN servers?

Also, in the USA currently, there is the option of using goTenna devices along with the GliderLink app. That's designed for peer-to-peer location awareness, but ground stations using goTenna devices could be set up, and they too could send data to OGN.

BTW all of these (other than ADS-B Out transmitters), AFAIK, transmit on frequencies (and at low powers) that do not require a license.

Another option is the use of the cellphone network to send gliders' positions to a server. Currently that's done by some via the IGCdroid app which sends the data to Glideport.aero. Either the app itself, or glideport.aero, could also be forwarding the data to OGN. This method does not require any hardware in the glider, other than smartphones which most of us carry anyway.

In my note above I was talking about OGN Trackers. They are low-power transmitters that go in sailplanes. They are a lower-cost alternative to a PowerFLARM or ADS-B Out. Some examples are shown he
http://wiki.glidernet.org/ogn-tracker
PowerFLARM transmitters need F.C.C. approval in the USA, I would think OGN Trackers would also need F.C.C. approval. But I'm not an expert on such things.

Best Regards,
Paul Remde

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 10:20:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:52:22 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Things seem to be getting a little confused here. FlightAware is a service that uses a distributed network of 1090ES ADS-B receivers and flight data sourced though some NAS operators/data service providers, some of their data products also include 1090ES ADS-B data from Aireon satellites (that service is still rolling out AFAIK).

There is really no such thing as a "FlightAware equipped" aircraft. FlightAware is ultimately just tracking 1090ES Out equipped aircraft and in some cases just aircraft equipped with a transponder via other NAS provided surveillance. There is no way for FlightAware to transmit data to FLARM equipped aircraft or visa versa. But combining those signals on a single display on the ground is just software, and for example what PowerFLARM (with the ADS-B Option) kinda already does... combining data for local FLARM and 1090ES Out equipped traffic.

BTW it was Aireon sourced 1090ES Out data that helped convince some of the regulators to ground the B737 Max.


On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:04:15 -0700, Paul Remde wrote:

The posts recommending the use of OGN are very interesting. The
customer I'm working with is not interested in having the aircraft
positions available over the internet, but our soaring club is.

Getting our club members to invest in PowerFLARM units or ADS-B Out has
been tough. The OGN Trackers look like a nice, low-cost alternative.

OGN in its original form was just a network of software-defined receivers
running on RaspberryPis that picked up FLARM transmissions, and passed
the data from them over the Internet to a webserver. This is what you
connect to on order to see all FLARM-equipped gliders and aircraft in
range of the network of receivers.

Since then a similar network, FlightAware, has appeared. It works in a
similar way to FLARM but it not compatible with it, but links have been
set up so that its now possible to co-locate OGN and FlightAware ground
stations and cross-link them so that, IIRC, FLARM traffic is broadcast to
FlightAware equipped aircraft and vice versa.

However, since they are transmitters, wouldn't a radio license be
required? Also, wouldn't F.C.C. approval be needed for any devices?

AFAIK its still quite possible to operate a pure OGN network with all
ground stations in receive-only mode.

OGN is only practical because, although a typical FLARM system only has
an operating radius of 4-5 km, an OGN receiver with a decent, well-placed
antenna can track FLARM-equipped gliders over a much larger distance,
typically 30km or so.

Go he http://live.glidernet.org around midday in the UK or Europe
to see what the system looks like when gliders are operating. Or look at
NZ or Australia about 12 hours earlier/later.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Aren't there also low-cost "OGN Trackers" (mostly in gliders in Europe?) which transmit signals that ground stations collect and contribute to the OGN servers?

Also, in the USA currently, there is the option of using goTenna devices along with the GliderLink app. That's designed for peer-to-peer location awareness, but ground stations using goTenna devices could be set up, and they too could send data to OGN.

BTW all of these (other than ADS-B Out transmitters), AFAIK, transmit on frequencies (and at low powers) that do not require a license.