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#11
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Kevin wrote:
I guess this is new to you but concept of flying a plane is based on safety. There are always going to be people like you who think you can change the rules of safety and make a runway any dam way you please but the math doesn't add up. People like you may insist "I only need a 1000 foot runway" and one day you will found on the end of your runway waiting for an ambulance. If that is what you want to do, fine, but stay away from the rest of humanity because you are a crackpot. I fly a Maule. If I'm found at the end of the runway, waiting for an ambulance, it's because I called it for somebody else. Now, if I was flying my Tampico, or the Baron, or any of several other airplanes, yes, that'd be close. See the difference? In the Tampico, I'd be comfortable with 2000 feet. On those incredibly rare days when things (most likely a combination of wind and density altitude) make that 2000 feet unsafe, I have a really simple solution: *I don't take off.* Follow that rule, and yes, I do only need 2000 feet of runway in that airplane. In the Maule, 1000 would be more than enough. I'd take off on a 300' strip, if I thought it was safe to do so; I'd look at my loading, the density altitude, wind, and runway condition, and make that determination. That number's not arbitrary, BTW--I *have* gotten the Maule in and out of 300 feet, and I'm by no means the best Maule driver out there. Michelle, you want to chime in here? The point is, just saying that he's building it x feet long doesn't mean much without knowing the type of airplane and the type of operation, and the pilot's attitude and decision-making process. --Dave -- Dave Buckles http://www.flight-instruction.com |
#12
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On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:36:03 -0500 (EST), "Kevin"
wrote: I started a message thread a month or two ago asking for information whether a person is allowed to build a runway. I think one or two users may have stated the answer but at the time it didn't seem realistic. Here is what I found out: FAA - The FAA has no interest in approving or denying a private runway on private land outside city limits or maybe even inside city limits. If it's "Private" they do not care and have no jurisdiction as far as the runway is concerned. They do have jurisdiction over the aircraft that might use it though. They do not say who or what may use the airport. (In the state of Idaho) the Dept. of Transportation has an aeronautics division. That department has guidlines on runway construction which is 2000 feet length plus one third of the elevation. The Dept. of Transportation also insists they do not approve or deny a private runway on private land. In addition, they say a person can make a runway any length they want and their dept. will not oppose it in any way. As others have said, the key is private. The runway is not open to public use. The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a it's pretty much the same in Michigan. group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their decision was wrong and planes crash. Their decision has nothing to do with how the runway is used. A farmer can set aside a strip of hay field, keep it mowed and call it a runway. When I talked to the FAA it was interesting they did tell me there is nothing to stop me from putting a tall antenna tower on the edge of my property. Ofcourse that is not the answer and would only contribute to the hazards. And... they may not be correct. It depends on the zoning. Here we have set back rules meaning I may not put up anything tall enough to fall on my neighbors. OTOH I can go to 80 feet with no engineering or permit required. Speaking of antennas and towers. If you take off from the old Houghton Lake airport (The one on the SW corner of the lake, not HTL) there is a very tall tower right off the end of the runway preventing either a straight in or straight out. You have to go around the thing when coming in, or going out to the NW. After Planning and zoning make their decision it does go to the commissioner. And if a person wanted to feed lawyers I guess they would be your friend til your money's end and make it look like they were on your side. Unless your neighbor decides to run a crop dusting operation it's doubtful you'll hear much out of him any way. Course I guess he might be able to afford a DC-3 and go camping. It's a great short field plane, but the operating costs are tad steep for most of us and you probably would hear him taking off over your place. Last fall I followed a friend home. He has a farm on the south side of a town about 25 miles from here. He has been using the strip regularly, but it is private although maintained year round. He just doesn't have the equipment to keep it free of snow all the time in the winter. The local FBO bout went out of his tree when I told him about landing there. He thought that was terrible. I told him that other than a bit bumpy it was a good strip. At that point he took off about insurance and safety and.... He couldn't understand me taking the equivalent of an old Bonanza into a short, sod strip. (I didn't need a third of it.) The Bo makes a good short field plane, it just doesn't handle large bumps well. What dictates the airplanes that can use a strip are the laws of physics. If he has a 2000 foot sod strip there are only certain planes that can safely use the strip and of those some will depend on the pilot's skill. The insurance companies will also limit whether planes insured through them will be covered when landing there. Contrary to what seems to be a general belief among the public (non pilots), most pilots shy away from any strip that isn't at least two to three times longer than needed to easily land and take off. My insurance says only that the strip be maintained year round and used regularly. The main point is you are not talking about an airport and in particular you are not talking about a public airport. You are talking about some one using their land for their airplane. (and maybe a few friends) The FAA cares only that he fly in a safe manner, not whether he lands on a 1500 foot sod strip, his back yard, a hay field, or a 10,000 foot paved strip. The township (parish), County, and state may, or may not have rules regarding a person using a strip of land for a runway. If they do not have specific restrictions there is probably nothing to stop the person for using however much land they want for a runway and they can take it right up to the fence line. If I had enough room out here in the county I could easily put in my own strip. Actually there is one less than two miles from me and I know he uses it, but I've never seen it in use. We used to have a strip kept mowed short in one of our fields within the village limits of Breckenridge (MI). I used to land over there quite often (in days gone by). There was another pilot who lived 7 or 8 miles south. He'd fly over and then walk into town. I'm surprised that he even has to ask the county or township unless they have a specific ordinance. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#13
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Dave Buckles wrote: That number's not arbitrary, BTW--I *have* gotten the Maule in and out of 300 feet, and I'm by no means the best Maule driver out there. Hey, even *I* have gotten mine off a 300' runway, and mine only has 160hp! George Patterson Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would not yield to the tongue. |
#14
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Wow. I guess I've really been put in my place.
Come back when you actually know a thing or two about planes. |
#15
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:36:53 GMT, "John T" wrote:
Wow. I guess I've really been put in my place. Come back when you actually know a thing or two about planes. Hey! I've landed the Deb in under 900 feet over a 50 foot obstacle which beats the book figure by a longgg ways... Although I do have to admit the wind was a *little* stronger and the temperature a little lower than a standard day :-)) Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
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