Pop out floats on a 206BIII

Bernie the Bunion wrote in
:

Interesting thread.

I've got a few helicopter pics showing the machines on these pop out
floats and wondered a few times what would happend if they were needed.

My curious question is how come operators don't use the old permanent
floats. You know, the ones that looked like cigar tubes, nice and
plump, etc.

I presume it would have to do with performance, speed, etc.

Would those types of floats be safer compared to the pop outs or
would still be iffy on roughish water.


They have been used, but they're unstable on land, you can't autorotate
successfully to land with them, they slow the helicopter down dramatically,
and you have to carry a hand pump around & pump for a long time when they
lose air (and they lose air regularly). Plus they mount rather low, and
the CG is higher than with popouts, so they'll roll on you even though
they're usually mounted further outboard than the regular skids. PHI has
one, for use in training, but they just aren't practical for everyday use
offshore.

--
Regards,

Stan

Stan Gosnell wrote:

They have been used, but they're unstable on land, you can't autorotate
successfully to land with them, they slow the helicopter down dramatically,
and you have to carry a hand pump around & pump for a long time when they
lose air (and they lose air regularly). Plus they mount rather low, and
the CG is higher than with popouts, so they'll roll on you even though
they're usually mounted further outboard than the regular skids. PHI has
one, for use in training, but they just aren't practical for everyday use
offshore.

Thanks Stan...... I never knew they had so many bad things going
for them.

I can imagine that fixing a slow leak in the field ( so to speak ) and
then having to pump it up by hand would be a little tedious.

Bernie the Bunion wrote in
:

Thanks Stan...... I never knew they had so many bad things going
for them.

I can imagine that fixing a slow leak in the field ( so to speak ) and
then having to pump it up by hand would be a little tedious.

That's why A&P's were invented. However, they aren't always available and
if they are, they can often be surly about doing actual physical labor.

--
Regards,

Stan

P.S. That's a joke. I wouldn't want to insult anyone of that religious
persuasion. Some of my best friends are A&P's............

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.

I just returned from a trip to California and spent 3 days in SF. Who flies
the LongRanger and 407 that does the tours of the Bay area? I see they have a
pad in Sausolito off 101. Back in 84 when I was last there they had a pad on
Fishermans Wharf that was used for the tours but if I recall the "powers-to-be"
tossed them out of there.
BTW, these guys fly in some very dramatic changing weather. One afternoon I
saw the 407 flying UNDER the Golden Gate Bridge into the Bay because the
ceiling had obscured the top of the bridge.
It could be sunny in SF and foggy/low clouds to the north or east. That has to
keep a pilot on his toes for sure.

Gerard

Fixed floats are always in the way when you enter and exit the aircraft.
Serious loss of cruise speed. Memory is 90 kts IAS vs 100, 105 on six-pack.
Reduce max gross, 3000 vs 3200 for B3.
Exaggerate pitch and especially roll when you're on boat, rig, or any
surface with motion. Especially boats.
Wally

Gerard/micbloo said

I just returned from a trip to California and spent 3 days in SF. Who flies
the LongRanger and 407 that does the tours of the Bay area? I see they have
a
pad in Sausolito off 101. Back in 84 when I was last there they had a pad on
Fishermans Wharf that was used for the tours but if I recall the
"powers-to-be"
tossed them out of there.
BTW, these guys fly in some very dramatic changing weather. One afternoon I
saw the 407 flying UNDER the Golden Gate Bridge into the Bay because the
ceiling had obscured the top of the bridge.
It could be sunny in SF and foggy/low clouds to the north or east. That has
to
keep a pilot on his toes for sure.


That would be S.F. Helicopter Tours. Thread a while back about the
ditching/auto/landing just outside the Gate. They have the Sausolito
concession now but have limited times for operation there.

The old company that operated out of both Saus. and Fisherman's Wharf was
Commodore helicopters. Talk about a money making machine! 3 minute rides for
$20.00 (or something like that...it's been many years ago!) Cash only for the
main portion of the company's existence. The trips under the bridge would be
charged as extra tip money right into the pilots coffee cup!

As far as weather around the Bay, yes it can be extremely sunny in the East Bay
and Low IFR around the Penninsula. You get good about micro-meteorology around
here.

Glad to hear you had a good trip out here. For all the foolishness of CA. it
truly is a beautiful place.

Jim

Glad to hear you had a good trip out here. For all the foolishness of CA. it
truly is a beautiful place.

We had a wonderful time starting in Encino (LA) in the Valley where we stayed
with friends then the drive up US1 which was absolutely breathtaking AND scary
at the same time, then three nights in SF.
I was impressed witn the beauty of the state like I never was the last two
times I was there (84, 93). The views of the San Fernando Valley as we drove
from Santa Monica back to Encino through Topanga Canyon. The incredible drive
up US1 to SF. The beauty of the redwoods in Muir Valley. Just so so nice.
Oh and helicopters also. LOL. In LA they're all over especially the PDs and
FD.
In SF with the exception of the sightseeing ships I did see a dark colored
S-55(58?) come flying over the Wharf and two CG Dophins flew over low one
afternoon.
Then in Oakland while dropping the car off at the rental agency I saw three
ships at Sierra and what looked like a dark colored A109 came in to land. My
kids cued me in on that but I was driving at the time and my wife "Gently"
advised me to keep my eyes on the road and not the sky. And as our plane (Jet
Blue RULES) taxied out from the terminal I saw Oakland PDs three copters parked
adjacent to the taxiway.
Yes, it really is a beautiful state.
And thanks for the other info.

Gerard

Micbloo wrote:

Glad to hear you had a good trip out here. For all the foolishness of CA. it
truly is a beautiful place.

We had a wonderful time starting in Encino (LA) in the Valley where we stayed
with friends then the drive up US1 which was absolutely breathtaking AND scary
at the same time, then three nights in SF.
I was impressed witn the beauty of the state like I never was the last two
times I was there (84, 93). The views of the San Fernando Valley as we drove
from Santa Monica back to Encino through Topanga Canyon. The incredible drive
up US1 to SF. The beauty of the redwoods in Muir Valley. Just so so nice.
Oh and helicopters also. LOL. In LA they're all over especially the PDs and
FD.
In SF with the exception of the sightseeing ships I did see a dark colored
S-55(58?) come flying over the Wharf and two CG Dophins flew over low one
afternoon.

I wonder if that was Friday. I was enjoying a more sedate mode of transport that
day, taking a cruise on the Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien from Pier 45 up the
bay and through the delta to Sacramento. One of the Dauphins made a few passes
over/around us as we passed by Point San Pablo or maybe Point Pinole. Then, an
hour or two before we got into the Port of Sacramento, a couple of news copters
from Sacramento stations came out to get some video; one was (I'm guessing) an
AStar, the orther a Jet Ranger. While the first was hovering off to the side, a
Coast Guard HC-130 made a fairly low pass overhead from stern to bow, which must
have looked good on the video. I don't know how the helos appreciated being
constantly tracked and "shot down" by the 3"/50 gun mounted at the bow and manned
by some enthusiastic high-school kids (I'd already had my fun tracking C-5s going
into Travis AFB).

Then in Oakland while dropping the car off at the rental agency I saw three
ships at Sierra and what looked like a dark colored A109 came in to land. My
kids cued me in on that but I was driving at the time and my wife "Gently"
advised me to keep my eyes on the road and not the sky. And as our plane (Jet
Blue RULES) taxied out from the terminal I saw Oakland PDs three copters parked
adjacent to the taxiway.
Yes, it really is a beautiful state.

Since you've tried Highway 1, next time you might want to try and drive up (or
down) the east side of the Sierra on US 395, then go over Tioga Pass (Hwy. 120)
through Yosemite, or else continue up to Tahoe. Death Valley's great in the late
fall/winter/early spring too. And then there's Mount Shasta up north on I-5, and
the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland just across the Oregon border.

As Mark Twain said, the coldest winter he ever experienced was a summer he spent in
San Francisco. I've lived in the East Bay west of the hills all my life, but I
must have San Francisco genes in me (my mom was a native) because I can walk around
in shorts and no shirt while it's snowing. Summer gives the weathermen in the Bay
Area a vacation, because they can almost always just repeat the previous day's:
night and morning fog along the coast, clearing inland by midday. The further east
you are, the earlier it clears; it may never do so if you're on the peninsula, and
if you're east of the Oakland-Berkeley hills you never get the fog at all; just
lots of heat and smog. The nice thing about California and especially the Bay Area
are the numerous micro-climates; as the saying goes, if you don't like the weather,
just move five miles and you'll be in an entirely different climate zone.



Guy

P.S. Ah, but the beautiful winter days immediately after a storm, that's when I
really like the City. So, try and come back a little sooner.

P. P.S. BTW, given your interests were you able to get to the Hiller museum?

I wonder if that was Friday. I was enjoying a more sedate mode of transport
that
day, taking a cruise on the Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien from Pier 45
up the
bay

Actually it was Thursday but I do remember seeing the cruise ship out in the
Bay as we headed back to SF. I wondered
where it was going.


Since you've tried Highway 1, next time....
Yes. If we had a few more days. I was reading about Yosemite, etc.

P. P.S. BTW, given your interests were you able to get to the Hiller
museum?
No. I wasnt aware it was nearby.

Gerard

Micbloo wrote:

I wonder if that was Friday. I was enjoying a more sedate mode of transport
that
day, taking a cruise on the Liberty Ship S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien from Pier 45
up the
bay

Actually it was Thursday but I do remember seeing the cruise ship out in the
Bay as we headed back to SF. I wondered
where it was going.

H'mm, there was a real 'cruise ship' heading out of the bay while we were passing
Alcatraz, but that was a modern slab-sided thing that looked like an apartment
building that floats. The O'Brien, OTOH, is one of only two WW2-built Liberty
ships left (it turned 60 this year), and AFAIK the only one that still is mobile,
and looks like your typical navy-gray cargo steamer from that era (plus the
guns).

Since you've tried Highway 1, next time....
Yes. If we had a few more days. I was reading about Yosemite, etc.

Just so you know for next time, typically 3.5-4 hours or so from the Bay Area to
Yosemite Valley, depending on traffic, if you go in via Hwy. 120. The tourists
(read lots of motor homes) typically take Hwy. 140. Getting to Tuolomne
Meadows/Tioga Pass is another .5-1.0 hour. Personally, I won't go into the
Valley from Memorial Day through Labor Day owing to the crowds, smog and traffic,
but hang out in the high country. Still, if you're pushed for time and just have
to do the '5 sites in 3 days' bit . . . But IMO the best time to see the valley
is Spring (the waterfalls are at their peak, and the flowers are out) or fall
(nice color, albeit nothing near New England), and winter's nice too.

P. P.S. BTW, given your interests were you able to get to the Hiller
museum?
No. I wasnt aware it was nearby.

Right down the peninsula from San Francisco, at the San Carlos Airport. FYI:

http://www.hiller.org/

Guy