At Dear Ol' AVL Airport, Asheville, NC

On 5 Sep 2004 19:47:50 -0700, (Daniel)
wrote:

Michael Moore may not be your cup of tea...
but, IMO, he is brilliant.


Yeah, right in the same league as Leni Riefenstahl.


Daniel

Not exactly Daniel. Leni Riefenstahl's most famous movies glorified
the burgeoning Nazi's and the expansion of the military in Germany.
Her films were intended as propaganda for the Nazi's, she was
literally asked to do the film by the Nazi party.

Call me sceptical, but I seriously doubt the Bush administration asked
Michael Moore to film Fahrenheit 9/11.

Corky Scott

Take at look at
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...docketid=15995

This was a Part 16 complaint filed by an aircraft rental company that
merely wanted to keep one airplane on a Chesapeake, VA airport in order to
rent it. The airport demanded that the rental company have a full office at
the airport (the company's office was at another airport).
The rental company complained to the FAA and the FAA held that the
rental company didn't have to have a full blown FBO operation in order to
rent aircraft at the airport. Sounds like it would apply to the situation
at Ashville. If you want to know more about filing a Part 16 complaint,
give me a buzz.

However the FAA has consistently held that mechanics who work on a
federally-assisted airfield can be required to pay fees to the airport for
doing such work. They don't have to work for the current FBO, however, they
can work for themselves but they may be required to meet minimum standards.

I wouldn't bother with arguing the Commerce Clause with the FAA. They
don't care about interstate commerce. Stick to FAA precedents and advisory
circulars which discuss these sorts of situations
--Kent Ashton


From: " jls"
Subject: At Dear Ol' AVL Airport, Asheville, NC

In order to be a flight instructor you need 5,000 feet hangar space, 1,500
feet office space, plus two airplanes, one of which must be IFR certified.
This is the official rule, in writing and enforced by the airport authority.
What this effectively does is exclude any competition for the one flight
school on the airport.

There is also another loopy rule which excludes A&P's from working on
aircraft at this airport, unless for the monopoly on the field.

I can tell you from experience that the FAA doesn't give a s___ about
anything but its own rules and regulations. If you can get the Airport
Compliance Branch to enforce them, you've done a good days work. If someone
starts talking about anti-trust to the FAA, they will just say they have no
jurisdiction over anti-trust questions.
--Kent

From: " jls"

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f9200/9262.wpd.
This case will get you started, as well as FAA rules, Clayton Act, Sherman
Act, and Lanham Act. This case is about merger but expresses govt
sentiment on the value to the public of competition at airports.
There are probably cases directly on point but I haven't done much research
yet. I'll furnish new info as I find it.

Kent Ashton wrote:
Take at look at

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...docketid=15995

This was a Part 16 complaint filed by an aircraft rental company
that
merely wanted to keep one airplane on a Chesapeake, VA airport in
order to
rent it. The airport demanded that the rental company have a full
office at
the airport (the company's office was at another airport).
The rental company complained to the FAA and the FAA held that
the
rental company didn't have to have a full blown FBO operation in
order to
rent aircraft at the airport. Sounds like it would apply to the
situation
at Ashville. If you want to know more about filing a Part 16
complaint,
give me a buzz.

However the FAA has consistently held that mechanics who work on a
federally-assisted airfield can be required to pay fees to the
airport for
doing such work. They don't have to work for the current FBO,
however, they
can work for themselves but they may be required to meet minimum
standards.

I wouldn't bother with arguing the Commerce Clause with the FAA.
They
don't care about interstate commerce. Stick to FAA precedents and
advisory
circulars which discuss these sorts of situations
--Kent Ashton


Thanks for your kind advice and I'll pass it along. It may be that the
airport authority are seeing the light and at least part of the problem
seems to be informally resolved.

One wonders about this calculating Million Air bunch who lease and
operate public airports about the country as if they were their
exclusive properties. It was discussed at our weekend breakfast of
builders that a group of RV'ers proposed a fly-in to Asheville's
airport to see the mountains, visit a while, and walk across the street
to lunch at an eatery where the food is known to be tasty. When the
proposal was made to the Million Air bunch, the RV'ers were tersely
informed they would be charged a $20 per airplane landing fee. That
was the end of that grand idea. So much for the friendly skies of
Western North Carolina. The RV'ers would have been welcome at KFQD,
where we have a neat little 57 Alpha Cafe which serves scratch-built
Mexican food and a friendly atmosphere. Why, we even have turboprops,
a Lear, and a couple of Citations there.

"Kent Ashton" wrote in message
...
The State of North Carolina is totally unconcerned with the interests of
recreational aviators at public airports. NCDOT sends a delegation to
Oshkosh and Sun n Fun every year saying, "come to our state, great place
to
fly". Sure, a nice place to visit. But apply to build a hangar at a
public
airport, or work on a homebuit at a public airport, and you might as well
be
talking to yourself
--Kent
Evicted from Concord Regional Airport six years ago and still fighting
with
NCDOT

I'll have to second that. Our local EAA chapter has been trying to
negotiate building an assembly hangar/ meeting place at Hickory regional for
years.
--
Jim in NC

The State of North Carolina is totally unconcerned with the interests of
recreational aviators at public airports. NCDOT sends a delegation to
Oshkosh and Sun n Fun every year saying, "come to our state, great place to
fly". Sure, a nice place to visit. But apply to build a hangar at a public
airport, or work on a homebuit at a public airport, and you might as well be
talking to yourself
--Kent
Evicted from Concord Regional Airport six years ago and still fighting with
NCDOT

From:


One wonders about this calculating Million Air bunch who lease and
operate public airports about the country as if they were their
exclusive properties. It was discussed at our weekend breakfast of
builders that a group of RV'ers proposed a fly-in to Asheville's
airport to see the mountains, visit a while, and walk across the street
to lunch at an eatery where the food is known to be tasty. When the
proposal was made to the Million Air bunch, the RV'ers were tersely
informed they would be charged a $20 per airplane landing fee. That
was the end of that grand idea. So much for the friendly skies of
Western North Carolina. The RV'ers would have been welcome at KFQD,
where we have a neat little 57 Alpha Cafe which serves scratch-built
Mexican food and a friendly atmosphere. Why, we even have turboprops,
a Lear, and a couple of Citations there.

there's a sort of procedure you have to follow: Get a copy of the approved
Airport Layout Plan. This is the plan the City must file, and keep current
with the F.A.A.; the City will have a copy. Identify a parcel of land on
the ALP designated for hangars. Then make a formal proposal to the city.
If the city refuses, you have grounds to file a part 16 complaint. I can
cite you a recent case where the FAA determined that a city could not refuse
to enter into a land lease with a qualified aeronautical user.

Also take a look at State law--NCGS 63-53(3) and (5)--which guarantees that
if the municipal owner leases "space, area, improvements, or property" to
private parties, then other private parties are entitled to the "rightful,
equal and uniform use" of such facilities, i.e., you're entitled to also
lease space.

Trouble is, a lot of EAA chapters talk but never commit. Gotta commit to
something. I hear you guys got a million bucks in the bank!
--Kent

From: "Morgans"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:01:47 -0400
Subject: At Dear Ol' AVL Airport, Asheville, NC


"Kent Ashton" wrote in message
...
The State of North Carolina is totally unconcerned with the interests of
recreational aviators at public airports. NCDOT sends a delegation to
Oshkosh and Sun n Fun every year saying, "come to our state, great place
to
fly". Sure, a nice place to visit. But apply to build a hangar at a
public
airport, or work on a homebuit at a public airport, and you might as well
be
talking to yourself
--Kent
Evicted from Concord Regional Airport six years ago and still fighting
with
NCDOT

I'll have to second that. Our local EAA chapter has been trying to
negotiate building an assembly hangar/ meeting place at Hickory regional for
years.
--
Jim in NC

Hey Jim,
You go all the way to Hickory to EAA meetings? I thought Morgantown was
bigger. I was trying to find a airport in Gaffney , SC but could not find
one on the website for airports. Do you know anything about that old
airport? If I remember right it was north of I-85 around Cherokee Golf
Course. Since you are in that" neck of the woods " figure you may know what
is going on down there. I would rather use Gaffney as a refueling stop than
Greenville. I could get my Uncle to bring the gas can to the airport!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Hey Jim,
You go all the way to Hickory to EAA meetings?

Yep. 25 minute drive, if idiots stay in the slow lane.

I thought Morgantown was
bigger.

Nope. Hickory is twice the size of town, compared to morganton. (note the
spelling) HKY also has a tower, while Morganton-Lenoir airport has none.

I was trying to find a airport in Gaffney , SC but could not find
one on the website for airports. Do you know anything about that old
airport? If I remember right it was north of I-85 around Cherokee Golf
Course. Since you are in that" neck of the woods " figure you may know
what
is going on down there. I would rather use Gaffney as a refueling stop
than
Greenville. I could get my Uncle to bring the gas can to the airport!

Nope. Don't get down that way. I'm a grounded person, until I can get a
medical (doubtful), or get with the SP program. One kid in medical school,
getting married soon (a girl, so you know what that means), and another at
App State, so money is tight, right now.
--
Jim in NC

Understand about fundage, I have that problem myself. I am doing the sport
pilot thing at TRI, but am supposed to go down and fly a champ in Sumter,SC
Saturday. Been getting rained out! Blasted weather!
TRI does not have a light sport plane nor a taildragger so I figured it
would only make me a better pilot to get a taildragger endorsement , alittle
extra training while getting the SP. Then see where it all goes from there.
I'll have to finish up somewhere else if I can't rent a plane here.
I am still looking for an owner financed plane in that category if you
or anyone else hears of one, give me a holler! And the Volksplane is in
progress in the basement I will fly something someday!!!! HAHA

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech