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#21
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... A. Smith wrote: "Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... Jay is merely parroting the OWT and misinformation that has been running around out there for _years_. Jay quotes an expert in the field and you accuse him of parroting misinformation? LOP is good when properly done, but I think the statement from Dawley says it is NOT being properly done for the most part. The company I work for overhauls 400+ aircraft engines a year. Our teardown shop can tell you which ones have been ran LOP and which have not. I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side. People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and simple. Matt Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running LOP did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed is when the damage started showing up. Allen |
#22
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
A. Smith wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... How do you design an engine to run LOP? Matt Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve material, crankshaft counterweight design............................... Example? Matt |
#23
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
How do you design an engine to run LOP?
Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve material, crankshaft counterweight design............................... Example? The original Continental in the original Malibu. |
#24
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
john smith wrote:
How do you design an engine to run LOP? Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve material, crankshaft counterweight design............................... Example? The original Continental in the original Malibu. I've seen a claim to this effect on Avweb, but haven't seen anything from TCM. Do you have any data from them that claims this engine was designed differently for LOP operation? I'd like to see more details. Matt |
#25
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... A. Smith wrote: Really? How? I suggest that if you are really interested in this you get with Lycoming or TCM and see what they suggest for your engine. There are only a handful of engines that were designed to be ran LOP. How do you design an engine to run LOP? So much for "expertise". -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO |
#26
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"john smith" wrote in message ... How do you design an engine to run LOP? Compression ratio, cumbustion chamber shape, valve placement, valve material, crankshaft counterweight design............................... Example? The original Continental in the original Malibu. Was configured to run LOP, not designed for it. |
#27
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"A. Smith" wrote in message om... "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side. People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and simple. Matt Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running LOP did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed is when the damage started showing up. That's a nice stretch of the original quote....and I've heard of mechanics finding all sorts of damages from running LOP when the engine was not run LOP at all. It's been a favorite excuse for years. Remember that for YEARS, the favorite leaning technique was to lean to peak, then enrich slightly (which would put temps at about 50ROP, the "Red Box" Red Box = No Fly Zone At and below about 60% power, there is no red box. At about 65% power or so, 100ºF ROP to Peak. At about 70%, 125ºF ROP to 25ºF LOP. At about 75%, 180ºF ROP to 40ºF LOP. At about 80%, 200ºF ROP to 60ºF LOP Before you stick your foot into it even deeper, read this and pay particular attention to the charts and graphs: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html Don't worry about the text so much as the graphical data. |
#28
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
1600º is LOR (Lean of Rich) not LOP. 1600º is right at peak, as has been
That's funny! |
#29
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
"Matt Barrow" wrote in message ... "A. Smith" wrote in message om... "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... I think the point is that it is the temperatue seen by the exhaust pipe that matters, not whether it is LOP or ROP. And the temps mentioned by Mr. Dawley sound more like runnint at peak, rather than either side. People seem to automatically blame running on the lead side and that simply isn't supported by the data. It is an old wives tale pure and simple. Matt Which is my point, people think they know how to run LOP but actually are running at peak, causing damage. The guy at Dawley didn't say running LOP did the damage, just that when the LOP operation began being pushed is when the damage started showing up. That's a nice stretch of the original quote....and I've heard of mechanics finding all sorts of damages from running LOP when the engine was not run LOP at all. It's been a favorite excuse for years. Remember that for YEARS, the favorite leaning technique was to lean to peak, then enrich slightly (which would put temps at about 50ROP, the "Red Box" Red Box = No Fly Zone At and below about 60% power, there is no red box. At about 65% power or so, 100ºF ROP to Peak. At about 70%, 125ºF ROP to 25ºF LOP. At about 75%, 180ºF ROP to 40ºF LOP. At about 80%, 200ºF ROP to 60ºF LOP Which orifice did you pull these numbers from? Before you stick your foot into it even deeper, read this and pay particular attention to the charts and graphs: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html Don't worry about the text so much as the graphical data. Do you even bother to read what you cite? Look at the gauges in the aircraft panel in the article you quote. The LH EGT shows 1595 degrees and the RH shows 1585 degrees. Both seem pretty near the 1600 degrees that softens stainless. Why do they use these particular power settings? To manipulate the data in their favor. |
#30
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Dawley Aviation PIREP, or: Atlas is BACK
Matt Barrow wrote:
it has to be done quickly, like 3-4 seconds ("The Big Pull" as Deakin describes it). When flying with an engine equipped with their turbo-normalization system, Tornado Alley recommends the pull from full rich to LOP take about 6 seconds. -- Peter |
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