Which plane for 5 small pax?

I have the opposite problem from the usual "four seats doesn't
mean four pax" problem -- I'm looking for an aircraft with typical
four-place load (and price) to carry five small passengers and
minimal baggage. What aircraft are out there on the used market
(including hombuilts!) which can safely, legally, and economically
carry two small adults (150 lbs each) three children (projected
total weight in five years at ages 9,7,5: 170 lbs), 100 lbs
baggage, and reasonable fuel, say 3 hrs? (570 lbs + fuel)

On the certificated side, it looks like a Skyhawk or its ilk would
(barely) carry the load, but I understand there's no legal way
to squeeze three kids in back of the four-place Cessnas and Pipers.
(Why not? Surely it's not that hard to add seatbelts!)

What else is out there in the world that I haven't heard of,
without moving up to a six-place plane?

Adam Aulick wrote:
I have the opposite problem from the usual "four seats doesn't
mean four pax" problem -- I'm looking for an aircraft with typical
four-place load (and price) to carry five small passengers and
minimal baggage. What aircraft are out there on the used market
(including hombuilts!) which can safely, legally, and economically
carry two small adults (150 lbs each) three children (projected
total weight in five years at ages 9,7,5: 170 lbs), 100 lbs
baggage, and reasonable fuel, say 3 hrs? (570 lbs + fuel)

On the certificated side, it looks like a Skyhawk or its ilk would
(barely) carry the load, but I understand there's no legal way
to squeeze three kids in back of the four-place Cessnas and Pipers.
(Why not? Surely it's not that hard to add seatbelts!)

What else is out there in the world that I haven't heard of,
without moving up to a six-place plane?

What're you gonna do next year when those kids are all 10 pounds bigger?

Rental.

Dave Butler wrote:

What're you gonna do next year when those kids are all 10 pounds bigger?

Adam, pay attention to Dave. When I bought my Maule, my stepson weighed 40 pounds --
now he's 210. I've also put on a few pounds since then. The first year, we all piled
into the plane with a week's worth of luggage and flew to Sanibel for vacation. Two
years later, it wasn't possible to carry more than an overnight case for each of us
anymore. Now, I can't even leave the ground with all three of us in the plane unless
I leave at least 10 gallons of fuel in the truck.

And Pete's still growing. We call him "Kong".

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

You've been told wrong. Cessna made a "child seat" for the 150, 172, and 182 aircraft
(and maybe others). This fits in the baggage compartment. Since the seat itself
weighs a few pounds, you would probably want a 182. I don't know if Piper ever had
the same sort of option, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that they did.

It's also worth noting that "legal" isn't the only important thing. A
Warrior or 172 at maximum gross weight has truely marginal takeoff and climb
abilities, and it will put a lot of additional limits on the airports you
can fly into and the weather you can fly in. On a summer afternoon, for
example, with my full family on board, my Warrior II cannot always outclimb
the light thermals above about 6,000-7,000 ft, so I have to watch the VSI go
negative for a while before the climb resumes on the next updraft. I can
nurse a fully-loaded plane to 10,000 ft on a hot day, but it takes about
half an hour and a lot of patience.

A more powerful four-seat plane like a 182 or Pathfinder would give the
original poster a lot better takeoff performance and a bigger safety reserve
in case of downdrafts, icing, etc. Of course, once he's looking at the 182
or Pathfinder price range anyway, why not buy (or rent) a Cherokee Six and
get the extra space and seats (up to seven seats, so the kids can bring two
friends along)?


All the best,


David

Navion Rangemaster

Adam Aulick wrote:
I have the opposite problem from the usual "four seats doesn't
mean four pax" problem -- I'm looking for an aircraft with typical
four-place load (and price) to carry five small passengers and
minimal baggage. What aircraft are out there on the used market
(including hombuilts!) which can safely, legally, and economically
carry two small adults (150 lbs each) three children (projected
total weight in five years at ages 9,7,5: 170 lbs), 100 lbs
baggage, and reasonable fuel, say 3 hrs? (570 lbs + fuel)

On the certificated side, it looks like a Skyhawk or its ilk would
(barely) carry the load, but I understand there's no legal way
to squeeze three kids in back of the four-place Cessnas and Pipers.
(Why not? Surely it's not that hard to add seatbelts!)

What else is out there in the world that I haven't heard of,
without moving up to a six-place plane?

"Adam Aulick" wrote in message
om...
I have the opposite problem from the usual "four seats doesn't
mean four pax" problem -- I'm looking for an aircraft with typical
four-place load (and price) to carry five small passengers and
minimal baggage. What aircraft are out there on the used market
(including hombuilts!) which can safely, legally, and economically
carry two small adults (150 lbs each) three children (projected
total weight in five years at ages 9,7,5: 170 lbs), 100 lbs
baggage, and reasonable fuel, say 3 hrs? (570 lbs + fuel)

Flight training for the second adult and get 2 planes, C150 & C172.... ;-)

"G. Burkhart" wrote:

Flight training for the second adult and get 2 planes, C150 & C172.... ;-)

Have you ever actually tried to fly a two plane flight with speeds as disparate as
these two aircraft? Get two 172s. :-)

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Adam,

Socata TB-10 Tobago in its five-seat-version. Ours can be seen at
www.d-edxw.de, more info at www.socata.org

Big back seat with three belts. 900 lbs useful load.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

George,
The M-7-235 has the fifth seat. I believe the M-7-180 and 160 do not. I
had the fifth seat and removed it. I lowered my insurance $500 a year.
Michelle

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Adam Aulick wrote:


On the certificated side, it looks like a Skyhawk or its ilk would
(barely) carry the load, but I understand there's no legal way
to squeeze three kids in back of the four-place Cessnas and Pipers.



You've been told wrong. Cessna made a "child seat" for the 150, 172, and 182 aircraft
(and maybe others). This fits in the baggage compartment. Since the seat itself
weighs a few pounds, you would probably want a 182. I don't know if Piper ever had
the same sort of option, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that they did.

The Maule M-7 (*not* the MX-7) also has a fifth seat in the baggage compartment. I've
seen one, and it's really only good for a small child. I think the maximum load in
that area is 50 pounds as well.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity