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#11
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"kallijaa" wrote in message ... You are out of touch with modern flight simming. Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a 2Ghz cpu, so maybe. A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views. A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few. You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will be enjoying it. There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your head. I also like the germ of that idea Good! That's a start. Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine is a Precision Flight Control system. I also use GoFlight instruments. How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us. Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use. Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding, mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc. There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors, cyclists, etc. Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are unconcerned with flight safety. I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies. Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from someone that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not. Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight simulators, but lack omniscience. But you don't? Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot certificate. Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less expensive and perhaps your only option. Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you? I may and then again I may not. Milton Friedman would be proud. Never did like that guy. Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G Dashii Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!. Hang in there, your are bound to get better. Dashii |
#12
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I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love sticks
but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s -- Happy Flying, Ed "flightsimcfi" wrote in message news:gLimb.19722$Fm2.9676@attbi_s04... look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy. Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some of this information. I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that do this end up saving time and money in the real plane. The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing more, nothing less. I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't, thanks to my CFI. For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming. For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a nice way to view the scenery. Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit. For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits..... you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits when they read magazines about flying. The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and behaviors. I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder pedals. |
#13
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"kallijaa" wrote in
: Oh, really? I recall you describing how you use "outside views." How do you access those outside views and where are your eyes focused during that process? Let me guess: You switch to outside view using your keyboard or a switch on your flight controls. Am I getting warm? Then you look at those outside views on the same display used to view the instrument panel and the slim strip of the sim world atop. Warmer? By that process you are training your head to habitually remain stationary and your eyes to look forward at all times. Those are the kind of habits that hinder progress in flight training. Kalijaa Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue that instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they lost this ability through simming? Those of us who transition between auto transmission cars, standard trucks, and motorcycles on a routine basis would call you a moron. So would the helo pilots who later obtained a fixed-wing rating. These are far more involved, and much more ingrained as habits, than anything you might develop in a sim. Moreover, flight instructors are used to dealing with people that have no concept of aerodynamics, instrumentation, or thinking in three dimensions, and flight schooling is geared around that, very specifically. Arguing that 'changing views' is looked upon as a habit that needs to be broken is unbelieveably ignorant. - Al. -- To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain |
#14
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"Dashii" wrote in message ... "kallijaa" wrote in message ... You are out of touch with modern flight simming. Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a 2Ghz cpu, so maybe. A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views. A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few. You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will be enjoying it. You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the price of one of those. There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your head. I also like the germ of that idea Good! That's a start. Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine is a Precision Flight Control system. I also use GoFlight instruments. How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us. Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use. I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys. Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding, mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc. There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors, cyclists, etc. Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are unconcerned with flight safety. I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies. Sure you will. Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from someone that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not. Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight simulators, but lack omniscience. But you don't? Oh, but I do. The trick is avoiding the need. Start by discovering your own limitations. Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot certificate. Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less expensive and perhaps your only option. Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you? No, but that's one of the ways "Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend" might wind up with a certificate. Counterfeits might be cheaper, but they amount to the same thing. There are always niches for those who rely on purchasing power I may and then again I may not. Milton Friedman would be proud. Never did like that guy. Somehow, that news fails to disquite me. Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G Dashii Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!. Hang in there, your are bound to get better. Thank you, that's is a consummation devoutly to be wished. Now I have to think of something nice to say about you. i uh i can't seem to . . . uh . to . . Curses, foiled again!!! |
#15
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"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message . 6... "kallijaa" wrote in : Oh, really? I recall you describing how you use "outside views." How do you access those outside views and where are your eyes focused during that process? Let me guess: You switch to outside view using your keyboard or a switch on your flight controls. Am I getting warm? Then you look at those outside views on the same display used to view the instrument panel and the slim strip of the sim world atop. Warmer? By that process you are training your head to habitually remain stationary and your eyes to look forward at all times. Those are the kind of habits that hinder progress in flight training. Kalijaa Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue that instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they lost this ability through simming? Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they have a natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel. The difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition. Those who have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with flying, will have the most difficulty. Those of us who transition between auto transmission cars, standard trucks, and motorcycles on a routine basis would call you a moron. So would the helo pilots who later obtained a fixed-wing rating. These are far more involved, and much more ingrained as habits, than anything you might develop in a sim. Moreover, flight instructors are used to dealing with people that have no concept of aerodynamics, instrumentation, or thinking in three dimensions, and flight schooling is geared around that, very specifically. Arguing that 'changing views' is looked upon as a habit that needs to be broken is unbelieveably ignorant. There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of facing forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating that condition with the controling of an aircraft will train a non-flyer to continue that practice in the air. The habit can be overcome in most if not all cases, but it does require extra time and effort. That can easily be the difference between success and failure. - Al. |
#16
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Ed Forsythe wrote:
I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 |
#17
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"Quilljar" wrote in message ... Ed Forsythe wrote: I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck! I ferried a P38L once that you might have enjoyed flying :-))) Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the z's with e's. dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt |
#18
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"kallijaa" wrote in message news "Dashii" wrote in message ... "kallijaa" wrote in message ... You are out of touch with modern flight simming. Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a 2Ghz cpu, so maybe. A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views. A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few. You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will be enjoying it. You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the price of one of those. There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your head. I also like the germ of that idea Good! That's a start. Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine is a Precision Flight Control system. I also use GoFlight instruments. How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us. Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use. I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys. Was I "gush"ing? Heh, well my gushing has turned into flushing, I'm done with you now. *PLONK Dashii |
#19
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"Dashii" wrote in message ... "kallijaa" wrote in message news "Dashii" wrote in message ... "kallijaa" wrote in message ... You are out of touch with modern flight simming. Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a 2Ghz cpu, so maybe. A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views. A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few. You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround "vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will be enjoying it. You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the price of one of those. There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your head. I also like the germ of that idea Good! That's a start. Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine is a Precision Flight Control system. I also use GoFlight instruments. How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us. Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use. I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys. Was I "gush"ing? Heh, well my gushing has turned into flushing, I'm done with you now. *PLONK Dashii Gee, I'm sure gonna miss that guy. |
#20
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"kallijaa" wrote in
: "Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message . 6... Oh, give me a ****ing break! Are you honestly trying to argue that instructors have to train somebody to turn their heads because they lost this ability through simming? Instructors have to train students to turn their heads because they have a natural tendency to look forward and at the insturment panel. The difficulty varies with individuals, but it is a common condition. Those who have developed, re-enforced and associated the habit with flying, will have the most difficulty. Very good, Skippy, you're talking about a routine part of flight instruction, just like using one hand on the yoke and maintaining proper mixture. But that wasn't the issue we were discussing now, was it? I believe we were talking about instructors having a significant amount of difficulty in un-training someone used to a computer sim from pressing buttons to look around. There's a lot more to it than changing of views. The practice of facing forward, limiting eye scan to a narrow range and associating that condition with the controling of an aircraft will train a non-flyer to continue that practice in the air. The habit can be overcome in most if not all cases, but it does require extra time and effort. That can easily be the difference between success and failure. Since you're offering this so comfortably, you undoubtedly have a reputable source at hand that backs up your claims. So trot it out. Because I'm telling you right now you're full of ****. CFIs have numerous things they have to train students to do, many of them that the student is not used to doing. This is nothing unusual. You're going to have to produce a lot more than reiterating basics of instruction to support your contention that simming, as you indicated very specifically above, can and does lead to flight school failure, or even (and I'm being extremely generous here) a noticeably extended amount of time in reaching certification. Put your money where your mouth is, Skippy. We're waiting. - Al. -- To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain |
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