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Mountain Flying Course?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 6th 04, 06:51 PM
David Megginson
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Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Rule of thumb for mountain flying is to be *at least* 10% under
the max weight. For my cherokee (that tops out at 2400) that
means absolutely no more than 2160. As a rule, during the summer
I try to keep it under 2100 (thank you, density altitude)


No one will fault you for keeping 10% under gross, but I don't think
that is really necessary. Most runways in the mountains are plenty
long for a 172 or cherokee. If you look up the performance data and
add 20% for pilot and aircraft performance, there will not be many
runways that are shorter. After all, if a runway is too small for a
172, how many other aircraft can really use that runway?


I'm guessing that it's not the runway that's Blanche's limiting factor. I
do not fly in the mountains, but I often do fly my Warrior II up around
10,000 ft to get above the weather and the turbulence, not to mention some
of the bozos flying pretty-much randomly down at the lower altitudes.

Once I get above 6,000 ft or so and am loaded close to my maximum gross
weight, especially on a warm afternoon with lots of thermal activity, my
Warrior's climb becomes unpredictable. On *average*, I still get the climb
rate published in the POH, but sometimes a downdraft will overwhelm me for a
few seconds or even a few minutes, and I am unable to climb or even to
maintain altitude; other times, I'll shoot up like a rocket when I hit an
updraft.

That kind of unpredictability does me no harm when the closest obstacle is
many thousands of feet below me, but I can see how it would be lot scarier
crossing mountain ridges, especially with the stronger downdrafts from
mountain waves, etc. Flying a bit under gross, at least in a
normally-aspirated 160 hp or 180 hp plane, should give you much more of a
fighting chance in a downdraft at high altitude.


All the best,


David

  #12  
Old May 6th 04, 07:24 PM
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Nicholas Kliewer wrote:

Would you suggest that I take the mountain flying course
somewhere else? I was wondering about doing it at Salt Lake
City or Logan, UT since that's a little closer to the area
that I'll be concerned about.


If you can find a good course in Logan, that would be a great place to go;
much lower than COS. Also, Provo is an easy airport.

  #14  
Old May 8th 04, 05:23 PM
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Andrew Sarangan wrote:
(Blanche Cohen) wrote in message ...
Rule of thumb for mountain flying is to be *at least* 10% under
the max weight. For my cherokee (that tops out at 2400) that
means absolutely no more than 2160. As a rule, during the summer
I try to keep it under 2100 (thank you, density altitude)


No one will fault you for keeping 10% under gross, but I don't think
that is really necessary. Most runways in the mountains are plenty
long for a 172 or cherokee. If you look up the performance data and
add 20% for pilot and aircraft performance, there will not be many
runways that are shorter. After all, if a runway is too small for a
172, how many other aircraft can really use that runway?


I stand with Blanche on this one... it is NOT a runway length issue.
As you state, the mountain runways are long enough. The reason for
operating 10% under max gross weight is performance. In the mountains
the critical issue is climb performance. The difference between 50 FPM
and 200 FPM will allow a great reduction in pucker factor. :-)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB
http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!
  #15  
Old May 8th 04, 09:04 PM
smackey
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Nick,

If you can get a course , take it. If not, or even if you do take a
course, I would recommend Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible." It
is availaable through the usual aviation catalogues.
  #16  
Old May 9th 04, 05:29 AM
Blanche
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In article , wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:

[snip]
No one will fault you for keeping 10% under gross, but I don't think
that is really necessary. Most runways in the mountains are plenty
long for a 172 or cherokee. If you look up the performance data and
add 20% for pilot and aircraft performance, there will not be many
runways that are shorter. After all, if a runway is too small for a
172, how many other aircraft can really use that runway?


I stand with Blanche on this one... it is NOT a runway length issue.
As you state, the mountain runways are long enough. The reason for
operating 10% under max gross weight is performance. In the mountains
the critical issue is climb performance. The difference between 50 FPM
and 200 FPM will allow a great reduction in pucker factor. :-)

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard


Of course what Jer/ doesn't mention is that I learned it from
him during the mountain flying course!

See? I *was* paying attention!


 




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