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Right seat flying



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 1st 04, 11:07 PM
Steven Barnes
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"David Rind" wrote in message
...
running with scissors wrote:

As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?

There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing
your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge
of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM.

as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual"
controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the
left seat is configured as the primary control station, with
reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body
is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non
pilot.

so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the
left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to
limit access to full control of the aircraft.

you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or
insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even
posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and
lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this
manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith.


You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity,
but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected
to be able to take over from that seat even if the student
has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude
in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right?

Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing
the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating
if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or
the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam.

If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like
there are important instruments or controls that you don't have
access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole"
or "unprofessional" seems really over the top.

--
David Rind



I had to land our club's 172 from the right seat once, when my newly
licensed pilot friend couldn't quite get a crosswind landing down. I think I
was lucky. I was pretty familiar with the plane, but had never flown from
the right seat before. We now have a Cherokee 180 and I think I'd like to
get some right seat time for various reasons (the one above, to introduce a
friend to flying, or any number of emergency reasons). I think it would just
take some safe practice with a pilot in the left seat in case things just
weren't working right.



  #22  
Old May 1st 04, 11:34 PM
Andrew Sarangan
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(running with scissors) wrote in
om:

From: Anthony Acri )
Subject: Right Seat Flying


Date: 2001-12-11 03:21:43 PST


Does anybody know if there is any regulations about flying from the

right
seat? Would like to flyi from the right seat while taking some

people up
for sightseeing. Have been flying from the right when I have been

doing my
instructors courses.


Thanks


As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?

There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing
your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge
of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM.


Please cite the paragraph number of this regulation that pertains to right
seat flying.



as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual"
controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the
left seat is configured as the primary control station, with
reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body
is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non
pilot.


Which aircraft are you talking about? Most small GA aircraft (skyhawks,
cherokees, arrows, archers, skylanes, centurians...) do not make a
distinction between left and right seat. Some aircraft do say that (the
Katana DA-20), but they are the exception rather than the rule.



so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the
left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to
limit access to full control of the aircraft.


The left seat provides full access to the controls in most small GA
aircraft.


you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or
insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even
posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and
lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this
manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith.


You don't need a loop hole. It is perfectly legal to fly from the right
seat unless the manufacturer or insurance company specifies differently.
Sounds like you own a flying business, hence your reference to 'my pilots'.
It is your business if you want to set a company policy not to fly solo
from the right seat. But expecting everyone follow your understanding of
CRM displays poorly on your understanding of how the GA world operates.






  #24  
Old May 2nd 04, 12:51 AM
Stan Gosnell
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Matt Whiting wrote in
:

I believe this applies only to the ATP certficate, which a
747 captain certainly would hold.


No, it applies to any pilot with a certificate other than
recreational, piloting an aircraft which requires more than one
pilot, either by type certificate or the regulations under which
it is operating. Part 61.51 (e) (iii).

--
Regards,

Stan
  #25  
Old May 2nd 04, 12:55 AM
Bob Moore
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(running with scissors) wrote

you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or
insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even
posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and
lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this
manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith.


As if your posting name didn't say enough about you, your entire post
says that you are either very inexperienced or lacking in confidence
in yourself and other pilots. It's been years since I have flown from
the left seat of a general aviation aircraft. A few years back when I
was flying 12-13 year old "Young Eagles", I never sat in the left seat,
and as a matter-of-fact, very seldom touched the controls.

The CFI who did my last Flight Review was amused when I flew the entire
flight including the instrument portion from the right seat of a C-172.

Bob Moore

  #26  
Old May 2nd 04, 01:25 AM
Pete
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Must be a lawyer's interpetation!

--

Pete Brown, CFI
Carolina Flight
Davidson County Airport


  #27  
Old May 2nd 04, 06:52 AM
running with scissors
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Default

"Brad Z" wrote in message news:ZMUkc.7446$_41.391899@attbi_s02...
"running with scissors" wrote in
message om...
As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?


A few that come to mind...

1) For aerial photography flights in aircraft with only left opening windows
2) Returning to base with an inop PTT button on the left yoke
3) attaching a yoke mounted GPS so that it doesn't block the instruments
directly in front of you on the panel
4) Demo-ing an aircraft to a potential buyer (who may not even be rated yet)


the poster stated it was in providing a sightseeing service and
placing a non flying passenger in the right seat.
  #28  
Old May 2nd 04, 07:06 AM
running with scissors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Rind wrote in message ...
running with scissors wrote:

As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?

There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing
your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge
of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM.

as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual"
controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the
left seat is configured as the primary control station, with
reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body
is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non
pilot.

so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the
left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to
limit access to full control of the aircraft.

you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or
insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even
posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and
lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this
manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith.


You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity,
but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected
to be able to take over from that seat even if the student
has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude
in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right?

Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing
the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating
if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or
the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam.

If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like
there are important instruments or controls that you don't have
access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole"
or "unprofessional" seems really over the top.


umm read it again there is no statement of "terror" at all.

the question i asked is what is the reason for placing a passenger in
the left seat. any CFI who placed a student with zero experience or
no ability in aircraft in a position of spin recovery or unusual
attitude in IMC would hardly be considered responsible.

the poster stated that it was a sightseeing trip and no mention of
instruction was made. besides, he also stated that he was not an
instructor.

corrct if a pilot does not feel comfortable in flying from the right
or has limited access from the right he shouldnt do it. which is what
i stated. many GA aircraft have the brakes located on the left only,
or instrumentation advantages from the left, or even fuel selectors on
the left wall. the question i asked was what would be the benefit and
why would a pilot be willing to fly an aircraft with a non flying
passenger in the left seat and potentially limit access to aircraft
controls. unless there is justifiable reasoning (and depending on the
aircraft type and equipment specification) it would be unprofessional
to do so.
  #29  
Old May 2nd 04, 07:07 AM
running with scissors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Matt Whiting wrote in message ...
running with scissors wrote:
From: Anthony Acri )
Subject: Right Seat Flying



Date: 2001-12-11 03:21:43 PST




Does anybody know if there is any regulations about flying from the


right

seat? Would like to flyi from the right seat while taking some


people up

for sightseeing. Have been flying from the right when I have been


doing my

instructors courses.



Thanks



As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?


You might be helping a student pilot work on some procedures in between
their lessons. I went back and re-read Amy's article and she did say
student pilot, however, I don't see why it matters whether the left seat
occupant is a student pilot or a non-pilot. I've never come across an
FAR that says I can't fly from the right seat, no matter who is in the
left seat or whether it is empty.


Matt



matt there was no mention of instruction. the poster stated it was
for a sightseeing flight and he was not a rated instructor.
  #30  
Old May 2nd 04, 07:10 AM
running with scissors
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Steven Barnes" wrote in message .com...
"David Rind" wrote in message
...
running with scissors wrote:

As a question, why would you want to place a passenger in the left
seat? what purpose would it serve ?

There are regulations pertaining to this, and if you are indeed doing
your instructors rating you should have gained a reasonable knowledge
of the FAR's and furthermore have an understaning of CRM.

as we are all aware, many GA aircraft are equipped with "dual"
controls and instumentation, however, depending on the aircraft the
left seat is configured as the primary control station, with
reduced/limited access from the right seat, limited further if a body
is in that seat, limited even further if it is occupied by a non
pilot.

so again, what purpose would it serve to position a non pilot in the
left seat and place yourself in the right seat, why would you want to
limit access to full control of the aircraft.

you may be able to find a loophole in the FAR's, renters policy or
insurance requirements to allow you to do this "legally", though even
posing the question indicates a complete failure to understand CRM and
lack of professionalism. if i found one of my pilots acting in this
manner he would never be in one of my cockpits again forthwith.


You make it sound like some incredibly dangerous activity,
but CFI's fly from the right seat all the time and are expected
to be able to take over from that seat even if the student
has gotten the plane into a spin or is in an unusual attitude
in IMC. Why the terror about flying from the right?

Reasons you might want to sit on the right include allowing
the passenger to practice flying (not loggable toward a rating
if you're not a CFI, but that may not be important to you or
the passenger), and to practice for your CFI exam.

If you don't feel competent to fly from the right or feel like
there are important instruments or controls that you don't have
access to, then you shouldn't do it. But viewing it as a "loophole"
or "unprofessional" seems really over the top.

--
David Rind



I had to land our club's 172 from the right seat once, when my newly
licensed pilot friend couldn't quite get a crosswind landing down. I think I
was lucky. I was pretty familiar with the plane, but had never flown from
the right seat before. We now have a Cherokee 180 and I think I'd like to
get some right seat time for various reasons (the one above, to introduce a
friend to flying, or any number of emergency reasons). I think it would just
take some safe practice with a pilot in the left seat in case things just
weren't working right.



mm and i have landed an aircraft from the right seat myself many a
time, with a rated pilot in the left seat. the poster stated it was a
sightseeing flight and the passenger was a non pilot.

in the situation you mention there was a rated pilot in the left seat.
 




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