If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot
that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On Aug 9, 9:43*am, Steve Freeman wrote:
Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? powerflarm units for use in USA will be available later this year. older flarm units are not for use in USA. See: http://www.powerflarm.aero/ Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On 8/9/2010 8:51 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Aug 9, 9:43 am, Steve wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? powerflarm units for use in USA will be available later this year. older flarm units are not for use in USA. See: http://www.powerflarm.aero/ Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" The PowerFlarm specs specify that they transmit on 868 MHz. Is this frequency permitted in the US? -- Mike Schumann |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On Aug 10, 12:41*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote: On 8/9/2010 8:51 AM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Aug 9, 9:43 am, Steve *wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? powerflarm units for use in USA will be available later this year. older flarm units are not for use in USA. See:http://www.powerflarm.aero/ Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" The PowerFlarm specs specify that they transmit on 868 MHz. *Is this frequency permitted in the US? -- Mike Schumann What you think FLARM have not thought of that? Be a bit careful readying the PowerFLARM web site, it's clearly focused on the European market. PowerFLARM will operate on a different frequency in the USA than Europe. Flarm already operates on a different frequencies in Australia, New Zealand and the rest of the world. Flarm has had a 915 Mhz frequency planned for use the USA for quite a while, although I don't know if that is the final decision or not. And current units have neat automatic frequency section based on location. I don't know for sure if PowerFLARM will do the automatically location based frequency change but I've been told by the US distributor that units purchased here will definitely run overseas (for example for traveling contest pilots). Darryl |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On 8/10/2010 3:29 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Aug 10, 12:41 pm, Mike wrote: On 8/9/2010 8:51 AM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Aug 9, 9:43 am, Steve wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? powerflarm units for use in USA will be available later this year. older flarm units are not for use in USA. See:http://www.powerflarm.aero/ Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" The PowerFlarm specs specify that they transmit on 868 MHz. Is this frequency permitted in the US? -- Mike Schumann What you think FLARM have not thought of that? Be a bit careful readying the PowerFLARM web site, it's clearly focused on the European market. PowerFLARM will operate on a different frequency in the USA than Europe. Flarm already operates on a different frequencies in Australia, New Zealand and the rest of the world. Flarm has had a 915 Mhz frequency planned for use the USA for quite a while, although I don't know if that is the final decision or not. And current units have neat automatic frequency section based on location. I don't know for sure if PowerFLARM will do the automatically location based frequency change but I've been told by the US distributor that units purchased here will definitely run overseas (for example for traveling contest pilots). Darryl I am very careful in reading the PowerFlarm web site. No where is there any indication that the information provided is European only and that US models are different. My whole message here is that people need to VERY carefully research everything, as all of the options available, now or in the future, have their own quirks and limitations. No one should assume anything that isn't clearly documented. -- Mike Schumann |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
Has anyone noticed how big this unit is? It is way too big to fit
anywhere in my glider considering I already have a big moving map in my panel. FLARM on the ridge is a very good idea, but how many pilots will put a unit in for FLARM to be effective as a system. I like the idea of renting FLARM at contests where they are needed the most, but I would be totally against a FLARM unit that does not have a voice synthesizer. Looking at the darn display while in a thermal is asking for trouble. I would like to try the unit, but I am not ready to buy unless I see it working in a real situation. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On 8/9/2010 8:43 AM, Steve Freeman wrote:
Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? There is virtually no FLARM in the US. It is unlikely to take off here, as the biggest threats for mid-airs in the US are between powered aircraft and gliders or other aircraft. It's a chicken and egg situation. FLARM is only interesting if everyone equips. No one is going to equip if they don't think that everyone else will. With ADS-B coming out, that is the way to go in the US. If you buy an ADS-B transceiver, not only will you see other ADS-B equipped aircraft, but, if you are within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will also see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft that are visible to ATC. With 80-90% of GA aircraft in the US transponder equipped, this gives an immediate benefit to anyone investing in ADS-B (assuming that they have a ground station deployed in their area). -- Mike Schumann |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On Aug 9, 7:56*am, Mike Schumann
wrote: On 8/9/2010 8:43 AM, Steve Freeman wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? There is virtually no FLARM in the US. *It is unlikely to take off here, as the biggest threats for mid-airs in the US are between powered aircraft and gliders or other aircraft. It's a chicken and egg situation. *FLARM is only interesting if everyone equips. *No one is going to equip if they don't think that everyone else will. With ADS-B coming out, that is the way to go in the US. *If you buy an ADS-B transceiver, not only will you see other ADS-B equipped aircraft, but, if you are within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will also see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft that are visible to ATC. * With 80-90% of GA aircraft in the US transponder equipped, this gives an immediate benefit to anyone investing in ADS-B (assuming that they have a ground station deployed in their area). -- Mike Schumann Mike, Your points are all well taken. I realize that FLARM has never been accepted in the US up to now, and we all know that ADS-B is coming in 2020 (although I thought there was a "glider" exemption), but with that being said, would it make any sense for FLARM units to be required for gliders competing in any of our nationals (or maybe even in regionals)? As you are aware, we've had several mid-airs between gliders in recent years and perhaps if gliders had been equipped with FLARM units in a nationals or in a regionals, some of these mid-airs might have been prevented.....Just a thought! Thanks - Renny |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On Aug 9, 7:12*am, Renny wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:56*am, Mike Schumann wrote: On 8/9/2010 8:43 AM, Steve Freeman wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? There is virtually no FLARM in the US. *It is unlikely to take off here, as the biggest threats for mid-airs in the US are between powered aircraft and gliders or other aircraft. It's a chicken and egg situation. *FLARM is only interesting if everyone equips. *No one is going to equip if they don't think that everyone else will. With ADS-B coming out, that is the way to go in the US. *If you buy an ADS-B transceiver, not only will you see other ADS-B equipped aircraft, but, if you are within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will also see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft that are visible to ATC. * With 80-90% of GA aircraft in the US transponder equipped, this gives an immediate benefit to anyone investing in ADS-B (assuming that they have a ground station deployed in their area). -- Mike Schumann Mike, Your points are all well taken. I realize that FLARM has never been accepted in the US up to now, and we all know that ADS-B is coming in 2020 (although I thought there was a "glider" exemption), but with that being said, would it make any sense for FLARM units to be required for gliders competing in any of our nationals (or maybe even in regionals)? As you are aware, we've had several mid-airs between gliders in recent years and perhaps if gliders had been equipped with FLARM units in a nationals or in a regionals, some of these mid-airs might have been prevented.....Just a thought! Thanks - Renny Mike and Renny, a good discussion of the macro view of FLARM and ADS-B. Another view is more personal, for example in my situation- I fly a lot of ridge and mountain in a very narrow altitude band and a lot of clouds. There is not a lot of power traffic in those conditions. I have a transponder but I don't see the Transmit light going off very often and I suspect I am not getting very many radar paints down in the rocks and trees where I like to fly. My greatest risk is from the six other gliders I share the area with, which do not have transponders and will never get them at the current costs; in fairness my threat to them is even higher as I am a low hour pilot. FLARM would go a long way to reducing the risks and at a reasonable cost; PowerFlarm would be my choice as it would also provide protection from ADS-B and transponder equipped threats, but at twice the cost the installed base in my situation would be very much reduced and I stand a better chance of talking my potentially deadly friends into investing in FLARM. 2020 is not soon enough. It is not soon enough for the pilots killed on a regular basis at contests, which we seem to simply accept as an unavoidable risk. With that in mind Mike's statement that FLARM isn't of use (for me) would not be correct. In 2004 my club lost two gliders and a pilot in a collision that would not have happens if they had had FLARM. How do you calculate that cost? Brian |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Flarm in the US
On 8/9/2010 11:23 AM, brianDG303 wrote:
On Aug 9, 7:12 am, wrote: On Aug 9, 7:56 am, Mike wrote: On 8/9/2010 8:43 AM, Steve Freeman wrote: Curious about the use of Flarm in the US. Was told by another pilot that the frequency used by Flarm is not approved for that category of use in the US. Is that true? If it is, do they make units that use a US approved frequency? There is virtually no FLARM in the US. It is unlikely to take off here, as the biggest threats for mid-airs in the US are between powered aircraft and gliders or other aircraft. It's a chicken and egg situation. FLARM is only interesting if everyone equips. No one is going to equip if they don't think that everyone else will. With ADS-B coming out, that is the way to go in the US. If you buy an ADS-B transceiver, not only will you see other ADS-B equipped aircraft, but, if you are within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will also see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft that are visible to ATC. With 80-90% of GA aircraft in the US transponder equipped, this gives an immediate benefit to anyone investing in ADS-B (assuming that they have a ground station deployed in their area). -- Mike Schumann Mike, Your points are all well taken. I realize that FLARM has never been accepted in the US up to now, and we all know that ADS-B is coming in 2020 (although I thought there was a "glider" exemption), but with that being said, would it make any sense for FLARM units to be required for gliders competing in any of our nationals (or maybe even in regionals)? As you are aware, we've had several mid-airs between gliders in recent years and perhaps if gliders had been equipped with FLARM units in a nationals or in a regionals, some of these mid-airs might have been prevented.....Just a thought! Thanks - Renny Mike and Renny, a good discussion of the macro view of FLARM and ADS-B. Another view is more personal, for example in my situation- I fly a lot of ridge and mountain in a very narrow altitude band and a lot of clouds. There is not a lot of power traffic in those conditions. I have a transponder but I don't see the Transmit light going off very often and I suspect I am not getting very many radar paints down in the rocks and trees where I like to fly. My greatest risk is from the six other gliders I share the area with, which do not have transponders and will never get them at the current costs; in fairness my threat to them is even higher as I am a low hour pilot. FLARM would go a long way to reducing the risks and at a reasonable cost; PowerFlarm would be my choice as it would also provide protection from ADS-B and transponder equipped threats, but at twice the cost the installed base in my situation would be very much reduced and I stand a better chance of talking my potentially deadly friends into investing in FLARM. 2020 is not soon enough. It is not soon enough for the pilots killed on a regular basis at contests, which we seem to simply accept as an unavoidable risk. With that in mind Mike's statement that FLARM isn't of use (for me) would not be correct. In 2004 my club lost two gliders and a pilot in a collision that would not have happens if they had had FLARM. How do you calculate that cost? Brian Why not convince your fellow pilots to invest in the Navworx ADS-B transceiver that is now shipping? FLARM in the US is a dead end. ADS-B is the future. If you invest in a Navworx type of device, not only would you see each other, but you will also see other ADS-B equipped GA aircraft, and if you are flying within range of a ground station, ALL transponder equipped aircraft. -- Mike Schumann |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
IGC FLARM DLL | [email protected] | Soaring | 1 | March 25th 08 11:27 AM |
WinPilot ADV & PRO 9.0b Flarm | Richard[_1_] | Soaring | 15 | February 6th 08 09:49 PM |
FLARM | Robert Hart | Soaring | 50 | March 16th 06 11:20 PM |
Flarm | Mal | Soaring | 4 | October 19th 05 08:44 AM |
FLARM | John Galloway | Soaring | 9 | November 27th 04 07:16 AM |